Is backrise (pressing double kick on wakeup) punishable?


#1

Hi all, been a long time since I posted on these forums after I dropped SF4 when Ultra was released, pretty pumped about SFV being close to release so finally back here!

Anyway, I was looking forward to meaty pressure in SFV after knowing back dashes aren’t invincible anymore and there’s no FADC on wake up so that’s awesome as well, but what about the roll back/back rise option (pressing 2 kick buttons)?

Can someone confirm whether those are punishable in any way? Like why wouldn’t an opponent use this option if it’s not punishable? Sure it puts you a little bit closer to the corner and it’s great that you can’t roll FORWARD out of the corner like SFxTekken (at least that was the case in vanilla SFxTekken, didn’t follow this game lol), but in SF4 backdashes also put you closer to the corner but that didn’t stop people from using it to escape pressure often, even then the back dash had recovery and was punishable.

Any input would be great about this mechanic and how people deal with it.


#2

No it’s not punishable.


#3

Thanks for the quick reply.

Well that kinda sucks, don’t see why a lot of people were happy back dash is no longer invincible when there’s this option. I understand they don’t want any vortex setups in SFV, but from what I’ve seen characters wakeup super fast anyway so it doesn’t seem like it was necessary to add it.

What kind of knockdowns you Can’t backrise from ? I think you can’t from CC knockdowns, but what about normal throws or command throws ?


#4

You can’t backrise from any throws. That’s why command grab characters are gonna be strong. Gief’s command grabs force you tech right in front in front of him where he can mix you into another grab or button you out of a jump.

CC sweeps cause a true hard knockdown so they can’t go anywhere. You can go for old school safe jump stuff if they get hit by it

People are trying to come up with certain meaty setups after a backrise. This is some stuff from the Chun Li thread

.

I believe the game works this way due to the white chip system now. Medium and Heavy normals give you about 8/11 damage on block. Meaning that simply walking forward and hitting buttons gives you a reward that can suddenly make your poke or throw do 30 percent more damage if you make them block enough before making contact. That and the counter hit heavy focus of the game is why I think being able to tech after everything makes more sense. They want things to happen during the neutral and not so much on knockdown.

The problem in SFIV was that every character had like one strong reversal along with these invincible backdashes, focus backdashes, jabs that go into full combos and shoryu FADC. In SFV your defensive options are more honest and some characters like Bison and Nash basically don’t have a standard reversal unless they have super meter. They have to block and V Reversal otherwise.


#5

Lots of great info, thank you DevilJin 01!

Not being able to backrise from throws is good enough for me, it makes landing throws a true threat and that’s great for pressure.

Few more quick questions if anyone can answer 'em:

1- Are backdashes throw invincible ?
2- Did people figure out safe crouch techs? Like for example is it possible to plink jab or short > throw and be able to tech a throw or throw a normal out when there’s nothing to tech? I hope that’s not possible but I think I heard people found a way around it not sure.
3- How’s the trip guard in this game? Is it like SF 4 where you can insta block after landing from empty jumps but there’s a couple of frames of true recovery if you threw out a normal in the air ?

I played the beta a bit yesterday and so far I like it, wish I had more time to play around with it.


#6

backdashing beats throws.

i think the crouch tech was taken out. not sure tho.

i dont know with 3


#7

@ilitirit had some videos on a crouch/delayed tech you could do.

He also explained that trip guard is effectively gone now.


#8

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#9

No, it doesn’t. It’s 5 frames slower than normal quick stand, but it’s just a standard wake up animation.


#10

It just gives you distance. Which is nice. When was the CC sweeps into HKD’s implemented? So now only supers and CC sweeps offer HKD’s correct?


#11

Not all supers HKD (if any).


#12

Wait. I thought all supers had HKD’s. Or was that also changed.


#13

That was changed a while ago. Only certain supers cause HKD now.

Nash’s and Karin’s are two supers that I know still cause HKD. Ryu’s and Chun Li’s don’t anymore.

Certain specials do cause HKD though. Like some of Bison’s EX moves.


#14

Yeah, I remember that some specials caused HKD’s. Why did they remove HKD from some supers but not others? I haven’t been really keeping up with the latest stuff (outside of character reveals).


#15

Some supers have lengthy post-knockdown animations (think Karin laughing after her super) where if you let people quickstand they’d actually be at advantage and could punish on hit. Same with Nash, he does that back-turned pose after the cinematic iirc.