Is Dee Jay Stronger now in Ultra or Weaker?

dee-jay

#1

Everyone has an opinion so let’s here them.

I’ve made a mockup of how the new hitboxes might look based on the MK and HK versions of the move. Take a look and please discuss! LK Sobat Hitbox Concept


#2

Well it hasn’t been released yet, so i don’t know how anyone could really know.


#3

I’ve got a really long winded opinion going into specifics of each move and opinions on them written out for myself as a sort of to-do list once Ultra drops so for those like myself who like detail, I’ll post a link to the google doc, but for those who want the short and sweet I’ll just drop a few bullet points. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Shbu_1uAQxnSLkEyOwqvQv1Bt8_OFdby5JlFJcsMwrk/edit?usp=sharing

Though I am kind of amazed that anything of Dee Jay got nerfed, I think someone at Capcom is aware of Dee Jay’s potential and was afraid of over-buffing and making another Cammy.(i.e. over-buffing a char that hadn’t been fully realized, then having to reverse some buffs) I’m sure this is the part where every Dee Jay player wants to yell at me, but here me out. There are things I saw as strengths in Dee Jay and from what I can tell the only thing he lost was the lower body invincibility on lk Sobat which, in its own time, was an extremely risky gamble to begin with. So what I’m going to do is list all of the strengths I see because I still think Dee Jay is viable in Ultra. He’s not top tier, but why would you expect him to be?

*Dee Jay now recovers faster from Ultra 2 while not really losing a noticeable amount of damage

*IF and I mean, IF, the PC mod’s recreation of the MK sobat buff is accurate, he has a legit corner carry. If you’ve got the PC Mod and want to know what I’m talking about, here’s the combo.
j.HK, cr.HP xx MK Sobat xx Focus lvl2, dash, cr.HP xx MK Upkicks, MK Upkicks.

*knee shot being at least +5 means real utility. Still makes Dee Jay the only character in SF with a KOF style small jump and now it’s at least +5 on hit which covers almost all of Dee Jay’s good normals.

*LK sobat has been simplified to be a safer footsie pressure tool instead of a 50/50 midrange low crush gamble. imo, better utility

*Climax Beat has a huge buff to its recovery time while receiving an extremely unnoticeable nerf to damage. Instead of j.HK, cr.MP xx EX MGU, U2 doing 595 damage it does 577. Hardly a game changer and definitely still scary. Especially given the under-addressed buff that comboing EX MGU to Climax beat is now easier than j.HK, cr.HP xx dp xx fadc U1 for Ryu. How much does he get off that? Only 446? And he has to burn two meters? lol.

*cr.MP may become really good at safely stuffing some of the lows that Dee Jay players used to gamble low crushing with LK sobat before thanks to a hitbox extension. That’ll be counter hit into mk sobat xx fa lvl2, cr.HP xx MK upkicks x2!

I think where people see the struggle is that Dee Jay’s vortex was always difficult to find success with, but I honestly think Dee Jay’s sudo-vortex was an accident. He’s a midrange character at heart and in that vein I think he’s much stronger now than he’s ever been.


#4

Just as an initial impressions. Concerns, new potential. A lot of players can evaluate these things from the change logs and some have taken it upon themselves to hunt for new tech in the PC mod which, now is officially incorrect about some things. lol


#5

Goodbye lk sobat. We won’t need you anyway. We have great normals and AA. Playing footsies with DJ is going to be easier.

Goodbye ex mgu. We don’t need you either. We have other ways to get chip damage, Capcom gave us better frame traps, a great wakeup game and we should hit our 1f links every single time anyways.

I’m very happy about Delayed wakeup. I was so sick of characters vortexing us. One knockdown and we continuously get hit with ambiguous cross ups. Delayed wakeup will help us a lot because it would stop characters like Ibuki and Akuma from mixing us up. It won’t hurt us because DJ has great meaties, OS, great frame traps and good kara throws.

Red focus will be nice. Now no one should complain about close st.hp anymore because it can be cancelled in to red focus.

Overall, I think that DJ will be better in ultra. I didn’t mean to vote AE 2012


#6

Is that why you keep doing cr. jab x2 EX MGU on block? I’ve been watching a bunch of your play on YT this morning and I kept wondering what you were trying to accomplish with that.

I also sense a great deal of sarcasm pouring from this. lol.


#7

I’m not gonna lie I was mad as hell when i read the changes. But at the end of the day I am a Deejay loyalist. So even though some of my go to moves are different ( for better or for worse). At the end of the day i’m going to adapt regardless of the changes.


#8

Yeah. We’re all salty. But now we gotta whiff punish low normals the old fashioned way like the rest of them lol.


#9

The fuck is up with niggas coming out the woodwork to low key tell Deejay players they’re overreacting? What’s next? “Stop whining and hit the lab?”. FOH.

But go ahead and ask an amputee if having prosthetic parts is an improvement on quality of life, when the conversation is about higher level competition.


#10

The knee shot buff to nerf was retarded. Not to mention that the hitbox is INSIDE the damned hurtbox. Hitbox needed to be extended forward and down a little, hurtbox needed to be cut WAY down. Then I’d be ok with 50 to 30.

Light sobat was change was dumb. A frame or two faster and being -4 on block and I’d be ok with having no low invul.

Still baffled at ex MGU.

Feels like he’ll have somewhat better footsies and I’m currently trying to find other frame traps besides cs.mk to fs.mp. If I’m doing things right, Dee Jay will be able to out right stun low stun characters with Red Focus (possibly KO), provided they fall for the mix-up. At least we got DWU. He’s got some good things but he still sucks IMO. I played Guy for the longest but got bored with him and moved onto other characters back in Feb 2014. That’s when I discovered Dee Jay. Now it seems I’ll most likely go back to either Guy or Rose. Maybe Cody.


#11

While the buffs probably makes him a better character, everyone else gets buffed even more. So he ends up at a worse place than he was.


#12

I think he’ll probably end up being the worst-ish character in the game again, but with a lot of the nerfs across the board he’ll be in a better position than he is in AE…

I’m just happy that U1 finally works as a move after 4 versions and have to dream that might give him at least something in a few MUs…

Everything else I think has been ran into the ground though, so just going to have to wait and see.


#13

Fuck Capcom.


#14

http://youtu.be/xU-gYhKlJMA?t=7s


#15

Feels like he got slightly worse overall. He got utility and tools exchanged for higher damage and combo opportunities. However, some of his bad matchups became stronger. Heck, some of his good matchups also became stronger. I’m not precisely sure but it feels like a net loss overall.


#16

Didn’t want to vote until I really ran through some matchups with him. Having done so, I do think he is slightly weaker overall. I think i understand where capcom was going with the buffs, and it’s more that they wanted him to be easier to use than anything (easier access to damage, easier reversal, easier pressure). The thing is though, that none of it is actually better (just easier), and when you factor in the compensation nerfs he winds up being slightly worse overall for those who already understand the char, and know what and what not to do (and proper spacing).

Capcom made it easier to be *good *with deejay, but harder to be great with him.


#17

I waited to try him first, and yes he’s really bad. Good luck to whoever wants to keep the struggle alive.


#18

I actually really like how Threi worded it, about making it harder to be great with him, but easier to be good. I guess that’s kinda of how I feel afterwards too.

I took him online, against a few friends casually, and I feel like I’m playing a different character almost. The kneeshot extra hit stun I can’t really notice as well unless I get it super well placed. The L Sobat low immune gone hurts so bad. Dash into Ultra 2 felt really freaking easy, like even easier than I think it is in AE v 2012. However, I noticed that on a few characters, like Cody again, if you’re not at like point blank range, or at least me, Ultra 2 would completely whiff, despite being the proper height. I tried UCW on a few people, it was meh? I mean having a long range fire ball punish with a bit of a damage scare is nice, but I feel like it’s almost not worth it with how little damage U2 does compared to by itself and compared to AE v 2012. For some reason the cr LP > cr MP feels better? It’s probably my imagination, but I felt myself hitting the link a lot more. Red Focus doesn’t feel like it helps, nor does it hurt DeeJay. By the time you can use it in a combo, the damage scaling is so terrible, it’d be better to like back throw and start a zoning game, haha. DWU I haven’t seen like many people use, or at least not on purpose. It hurts him in some cases, but I haven’t seen that much of an impact on that sort of play style. Sadly, I don’t think I’ll be able to keep playing him as my main in Ultra, time to hang up the maracas.


#19

just to say, I’m not the best player in the world, but I’ve been playing Deejay since Day1.

the good:

  • normals are dramatically better with footsies (i.e. cr.mp cr.fp)
  • mk sobat frame buff helps with more damage after fadc/red focus
  • higher float on mgu makes u2 easier
  • ch st.fp is somewhat viable now, better than nothing
  • cr.fk hitbox is better but nothing crazy
  • st.mp is good with lower startup
  • cr.lk 4f startup makes corner combos easier
  • cr.lk 4f startup helps with cr.tech? i cant really tell tbh

the bad:

  • i wouldve rather kept ae ex-mgu, it tends to miss when you combo into it (hit box pulled back???)
  • recovery on mgu is stupid bad, so no more mashing ;p
  • ex.mgu can still get stuffed by mids
  • lk sobat is the same (wasnt punishable if used right in ae), it was just nerfed, miss the 50/50
  • u2 tends to miss when when ex.mgu is too far, this was never the case in ae

the weird:

  • still figuring out setups for post-u2 buff, not sure if its a buff
  • is there more push-back with cr.lp? combos are not landing the same with it

The play style will change dramatically with how he was meant to be played in AE.

EDIT: (After a few days of playing DeeJay) my remarks:

  • I want to change my opinion to him being better in AE, definitely.
  • crouch tech still isnt working well, the 1f buff did nothing
  • sobat kicks are relatively good to use now
  • st.mp shouldnt be used for comboing, instead for poking to sobat kick
  • sobat kick tends to miss the second if spaced too wide, even mk sobat (supposed to have homing???)
  • knee shot nerf was the worst possible thing to do to DeeJay, sacrificing hitbox for hitstun was stupid
  • mgu is totally pointless now, still not good on wakeup unless youre random
  • chip buff for fireballs was good, sobat chip is better
  • I would definitely would rather play the AE Deejay.

#20

NERF UPDATE:

Cr.hp and Cr.mp: it seems due to the extension on the hitboxes (esp on cr.hp) a weird pushback happens that means you need to special cancel a tiny bit later than usual.
jump.hp: either something has been done to the hitbox on this or I’ve only tested it on weird hurtbox characters BUT this completely whiffs on crouching opponents now, regardless of timing WILL UPDATE LATER
st.mp: use this wisely, it whiffs on much of the cast when crouching. So unless you start out on a standing opponent I recommend cr.mp for your bnbs
Knee Shot: there’s something similar to the jump.hp going on here. It’s whiffed on crouchers on a few toons i’ve tested it on WILL UPDATE LATER

BUFF UPDATE:

Lk.sobat: aside from this now being trash, it seems to move a little further forward. Anyone else feeling this way?
EXMGU: you can now mash before dash U2, leave u to feel how you like about that.
St.mp: on much of the cast STILL RESEARCHING you can get 300+ damage no meter from a jump.mk by using: st.mk - st.mk - st.mp - hk.sobat (red focus dash U2 on top of this = 500 dmg or so)
Dash U2: the input seems even more lenient now, anyone else feeling this?