Is it possible to make the light punch Criminal Upper completely safe on block?



According to the frame data listed on eventhubs, the lp criminal upper is -5 on block. which is safe most of the time (very few characters can punish this because of the push back it causes). When i first started playing cody i used to end all of my block strings with lp CU just for this reason. Now ive started to end them with either a cr mk followed by a quick backdash, lp rocks, fake rocks or a crack kick followed by grab.

But thats not what this thread is about. I recently understood the concept of how certain moves can be made safe on block if you hit the opponent with only the last active frame of the move (lk ruffian for example).

According to the framedata on event hubs, lp CU has 17 active frames followed by 22 recovery frames leaving the opponent -5 on block. This is assuming that the opponent was hit by the first active frame of the move. Now, 22+17 = 39. Meaning you are stuck in 39 frames of animation starting from the first active frame to the last recovery frame. Subtract 5 because the move is -5 on block and you have 39-5 = 34, meaning that lp CU causes 34 frames of block stun on the opponent and since you still need 5 more frames to recover the move becomes -5 on block.

Now my question is, lets say you were to hit the opponent with the last few active frames of the move… lets take the 15th frame for example… so starting from the 16th active frame your opponent goes into block stun for 34 frames. You on the other hand are stuck in animation for 2+22 = 24 frames. 34 - 24 = 10. Meaning it would leave you +10 on block. Does this seem correct? Or does the fireball hitbox (the tornado portion of the move) cause a different amount of block stun than the initial 2 attack hitboxes?


actually most characters can punish it. some harder, some less hard. some only with ultra/super and very few aren’t abel to.
and afaik it’s always -5 due to the reason that the tornado is considered a projectile and cu hits always with its last hit, no matter what happend before.


I see… so basically the last active frame of CU needs to hit the opponent for it to be -5 on block, not the first.

And yeah i know most characters can punish it, but a lot players dont really know how to. majority players just throw out a sweep after blocking it and fail, which is why i used to use it to end my block strings. Eventually i started playing with higher level players and realized it wasnt safe to throw out and stopped. I was just wondering if there was still hope that it could be made safe on block, but i guess not :frowning:

anyways thanks for your input :slight_smile:


When I started playing with Cody I did this as well. After a while, instead of “ending the blockstring” with lp CU, I would realize my combo is not connecting via hit confirms, and continue pressure. For example:

c.lp c.lp (confirm hit) HP CU
c.lp c.lp (confirm no hit) f+mp, c.lp, etc.


^what he said. I guess every cody starts at that point of ending with a lp cu and moves on to keep pressure on instead of reseting it. however, sometimes lp cu can be a good choice to punish their reversal attemp, however this is character and playerspecific.


Your math would be correct, except you make one fatal mistake: you’re doing the math as if CU is a single hit that causes 34 frames of block stun. This is not the case, though. CU is a single hit causing X blockstun, followed by a projectile that is (in the case of LP CU) 3 hits, causing 3 periods of blockstun per hit.

I can’t say for sure since the data isn’t complete enough, but it depends on how many active frames the last hit of the tornado has. If the last hitbox of the tornado has 6 active frames, then you could make the tornado meaty to get the last hit to be meaty and make is +0. More than 6 active frames and you could start to get into the positive advantages.

Bottom line though is that this is pretty much a waste of time. Even if it’s possible (which I doubt), it would most likely be hard to setup, and even if you did set it up, Cody has much better options than this would be.


Oh no i understand that its a multiple hitting move. I was just under the impression that whichever hit hits first puts them into block stun and the blockstun caused by the following hits gets ignored.

I get it now though. Thanks.


judging from the behaviour of similar multy hitting moves I’d say it has one or two active frames, thus it’ll probably remain unsafe.
but yeah, we miss the frame data on it + it’s not really important / time waste.


reversal “Spiral arrow!”