Is playing defensive the right way to play against good players?

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
#1

Ok first of all I would like to say I don’t consider myself too defensive. When I play against ppl that are NOT MUCH better than I am then I would never turtle or anything.

There are however, these 2 dudes at my local arcade which I consider pretty good (one of them placed 2nd in the first tosf tourney I heard), and they mainly use shotos. Whenever they use Akuma I pretty much have no chance to win (can probably win 1/10 or so games). Ken is annoying too since they keep doing air ex hurrican kick which attacks both front and back but it’s not as hard as Akuma. The damage is set to really high which is a disadvantage for Hugo as well. I try not to parry to much since if I miss, a non-super Akuma combo would take off 1/2 of Hugo’s life. Hence I block a lot. And that’s what pisses them off. It just seems like they hate to play against me. One of them even said, ‘The game gets boring when you play defensive’. It’s not like I just block all day long and gets pushed to corner every round.

I mean I know 3s is a fast pace rush down game for most ppl (at least here in Toronto anyway), but is there any wrong with playing defensive w/ Hugo against good players? Is that how you guys play?

Just one more thing. One of the 2 shoto players are really good at parrying. It seems like he can parry 80% of my slaps and claps and go into crouching mk -> super. Now I don’t think I’m that predictable with my stand up attacks but is it possible that he can parry those on reaction since they are slow attacks? In the end I try to stick out less claps and slaps but it got him more pissed off.

#2

You are in the right playing the game your pace. Lets face the facts, Hugo fucking sucks. The only way hugo can be good is the person who is playing him (refer to hungbee’s oro and combofiend’s elena). Most of the characters have better strats and playablity. the best thing you can do is not fall prey. When i play 5star and Frankie3s i am patient. Hugo has lots of life and can deal great damage in a short period of time. So whats the rush? If they get annoyed of your blocking, pfft let them. They should be honored that your not scrubing out and trying to push the game to the limit. If your going to play Hugo competively there are a couple things you need to understand:

  1. Hugo does suck.
    2)Learn his limitations and dont fall to it.
    3)Learn(.) Learn every match up you possibly can. Experience determines a winning and losing situation for hugo.
    4)Dont play to win. Play to be different. Play to prove a fucking point. If you wana win tournies, you are playing the wrong character. Hugo can win. But you gotta be at least 3-4 times better with hugo than he is with his top tier character.

There is so much to know about hugo. I am still learning him. I am not learning to win, but learning how to lose (a japanese way of thinking).

The standing mp is slow. If you keep abusing that move it will be no time till they dont even need to parry to low forwardxxsuper you. I only throw that move out if it will connect. Never wiff!

If you are being read. Change it up. Be random (a combofiend suggestion). Learn to play saIII. When do you do figure it out. It will be more dependable than saI. I promise you that. Alternate between I and III. Hugo needs as much diversity as possible. Fuck it, even do a wake up super. So what if it lands and they think your a scrub for doing that. Take what you can get man.

I would rather block 80% of my opponents moves than be able to parry 80% of the time. Ysb is a great blocker. Blocking is a fucking art. Parrying is too risky. If they cant get through your blocking what else can they do.

So far i have been placing 5-7 in tournies. I am very proud of this. If you consider the type of character I play and the type of people I compete with you will undertsand. Most of FF believe that canada is closest to our level than other places. You have good players there. Keep playing.

Pryo, Frank, and the rest of FF’s top do beat me. But i will never lose 10 in a row or even 5 in a row to them. FF regional is next week. I plan on being top 5. I am placing attainable goals. I do plan on winning a great tourney with great players one day.

Good luck with hugo. Keep playing and keep learning. Come down to US for evo. Me and the guys at FF will help you with your match ups.

peace…

#3

I’m sure, as fellow Hugo players, we all know what pace Hugo’s game is at, and shoto speed it is not. But then, we like the speed as it is. Yes it is very frustrating when you try to counter a move that Chun Li is recovering from, only to find that she is so damn quick that she is already blocking:mad:

Anyways, HuGoLiZarD, you speak of the fact that one of the players parries 80% of your moves, and not meaning to sound rude but it could be because they can see a pattern in your play. They are already expecting you to throw out a certain move and therefore refrain from throwing out a poke at that moment in time. Thats the type of thing that happens when I play my Hugo against my mates Makoto, I expect a lot of hayates and shit and try to parry accordingly. Having said that though, I’ve not had any play against other peoples at the mo, so I cant really back up everything I say:p

Also, if the guy keeps parrying your claps, why not SA cancel in to SA1, since they are unable to react to it if you pull it out on the parry frame.

Another thing is that I reckon Hugo should be treated like Q in that you get your taunts in whenever you can, lets face it, a player isnt gonna wanna invade your space, if he does neutral throw him and taunt.

But yeah, air hurricanes are the bane of Hugo:mad:

#4

Thx for the long reply.

No, I’m not playing Hugo so I can win most of my games. If I play against really good players using top tier and I win 1/5 games then I’m happy. I’ve been using Hugo for years now and has never changed my main character (came close several times back then), but in the end I just decided this game is for fun and using Hugo is what makes this game fun for me.

I guess I can see why those 2 guys are pissed off playing vs me. They play rush down Akuma and Ken, and when they’re in close they stick out a bunch of random (maybe not so random to them) pokes. Now when I’m close to them and out of 360 range I don’t like to poke back too much (or parry) 'cause Hugo’s attacks are darn slow. So I block a lot. So basically they do attack most of the time. But I guess they’re just pissed off 'cause they think I play defensive and wait for them to make a mistake so I can 360 them or whatever.

I know after several rounds vs the same person it gets really hard for me to land a 720. They simply play to avoid it when my super is full. So I finally decide to alternate btwn SA1 and SA2. I find that changes the game quite a bit. My opp simply plays differently when I have different super, and it’s a good thing. However, when I do use SA3, I feel like it changes my game quite a bit this time. I always look to land the super and it gets blocked most of the time as well. I do want to learn to use SA3 so I can sort of alternate among all 3 supers. So can you tell me a few tricks using SA3? Do you throw it out randomly most of the time (which is what I do when I’m pressured)?

#5

The guy does not parry 80% of every single one of my moves. But it just seems like he does parry a REALLY high rate of my slap (mp). I don’t think I’m predictable to the point where he can parry 80% of those but I could be wrong. Maybe he does see a pattern since we play against each other quite a bit.

I know Japanese guys do clap (parried) -> 720 but can I do that on reaction after seeing the parry? I mean I don’t want to waste my 720 expecting him to parry my clap right?

#6

A command throw after a blocked clap in the corner is always good now and then, since they’re expecting a MP/cr.MK/cr.WP. If you can go for the 720, do that. Having said that, cr.WP is a very good tool.

Then there’s the cr.WK>WK lariot>360/dpWK/WK lariot/SA3 on a blocking opponent. Although, this is random in that if the opponent jumps, you miss 360 and if the opponent does a grounded attack, you miss dpWK. SA3 would be the best option here since you take out grounded opponents as well as sucking them out of the air:)

As for parry clapXXSA1, I never use that myself cos I never practice it in training, but it’s something I want to eventually incorporate into my gaming, that and the triple clap combo, and to make the wall toss>HP clap>f.HP combo more consistant.

I think that its a good thing that you get to play these type of opponents cos it forces you to improve your gaming with Hugo, I dont get that type of competition around here:( SA2 is a good super to counter people using air hurricanes, if you parry the first on-coming hit rather than to block it SA2 will grab him out before the next hit.

#7

Back to the heading of playing defensively against good players, I think that if the good player is playing offensive, then you have to turn from being defensive to offensive quickly. Hugo is best when cornering an opponent so defence until you can throw them into your corner.

However if the opponent is playing keep-away with pokes and so-on, its probably safer to stay back yourself rather than to risk unecessary injury. I think we’ve all played an annoying keep away Chun before:mad: So stay back and taunt:lol:

#8

Be totally random at all times, if you dont know what the hell your going to do next how can the other guy hahaha

#9

I wouldn’t play defensively against good players because it gives them too much of an advantage to set up their attack. And if they are good players their attack will be harder to defend.

I haven’t studied many (if any) Hugo guides, but I reckon Capcom designed Hugo to be played by Parry experts (more than any other character) (By the way I always try to imagine what the R&D were thinking when they design a character, it can help you find the most optimal way to play said character.) Air Tatsumaki’s aren’t that hard to parry all the hits (even Ken’s enhanced) so just be aware that they are coming and be ready to parry every single hit.

As far as the enemy predicting pokes and parrying them, try this; next time you are going to poke wait a split second, your enemy will make the parry command but miss, you may be able to hit them in this small window. Or even better if you are close enough go for the JAB Earthquake Bomb, because that can’t be parried.

As far as fighting Gouki goes, if the damage on your machine is set to max then an Earthquake bomb should take out UnGodly ammounts, so use this to your advantage and squash that silly Gouki!

#10

Trouble is most good players don’t aim for the front of your head but but the back. Ken players use EX versions, and of course Gouki just uses normal ones, both of which will take you off your feet to be juggled, if they hit you in the head. These moves are also really fast, unlike normal move cross overs which are easier to react to.

#11

Re: Re: Is playing defensive the right way to play against good players?

Exactly. These moves come out so fast most of the time you won’t know if it’ll hit the front or the back of your head. With Ken’s ex, sometimes it’ll even hit both the front and the back of your head so you’ll have to block 2 directions. And it just seems like every Ken I play against these days abuse his air ex hurrican kick vs my Hugo.

#12

The problem is it’s very hard to even land one of those in a match vs a good Akuma. I mean one can always parry (ground attack) then 360 but if I miss that parry then a combo can take off 1/3 of Hugo’s life. If I have my 720 bar full then it might worth the risk.

#13

I just have another question. How do you fight quick characters like yang, ibuki and ken in close range? Hugo’s pokes are so damn slow so a lot of times I’m forced to play denfensive and wait for my opp to make a mistake. Seems like it really pisses the good players off though.

#14

Sorry for the late reply. I was getting ready for the FF regionals.

Hmmm…

I was given a tape from shogo of denjin video that had ysb beasting on pyrolee and arlieth for 20 mins straight and only losing to tama (top tier oro player).

To be honest i didnt learn anything too new from that tape. I came to realize that in comparison to ysb, i parry too much with hugo. YSB is a great blocker. He will block a string of attacks purposely, then parry unexpectedly. Ed ma and Pyro said that ysb will block all day if he wants too.

YSB does wake super with sa3. He also uses sa3 as an anit air. So maybe wake up supers aint so scrubby with the big guy.

The way he thinks is if your going to play that way, then i am going to play this way. He doesnt do anything tricky. But he knows what to do and when to do it.

Ysb’s strongest points are in corner trapping. Which i wll try to explain later. I need to look at the tape more.

YSB is great because of experience and “ume” (which go hand in hand).

So keep playing and learning match ups.

Hurricane kicks are a bane to hugo. If your opponent knows how to do that, tough nuts. Learn how to block to it. I feel your pain. Every now and then i still get caught with it. When it happens i just shrug it off. It happens. Hugo has huge hit boxes. As hugo players it helps to learn and get used to it.

With quick characters. Playing defensively isnt a bad idea. If they get mad at players playing denfensively…let them. There is no real way to play this game. Do whatever makes u feel comfortable. No need to change your style jes because other people dont like it.

The way i fight quick chars is defensive and offensive. Hmmm…cant really explain too much there. Considering that the people i play against probablyplay different from the people you play against. Maybe if you give me situations we can work on how to get around your problem points. I noticed in your previous post you stated that you dont poke back so much. Hugo kinda needs that. Watch what the opponent throws out and when (distance wise). His pokes are slow, yes. But his jab and weak kick pokes are pretty long. I mainly use that. If you pay attention enough you can start to see what pokes come out and when. For example if an opponent is close to me and makes me block empty mk. I can negative edge or dbl tap a 360 grab as a reversal.

Keep a look out for denjinvideo.com shogo will post the ysb vids on there.

Guess thats it for now…

peace…

#15

One thing about poking close range with Hugo. Apart from attacks with large anticipation animation, Standing Middle Punch is the only attack that hugo has that can not be parried low.(and even the slap has some warning start up frames) A good opponent will be waiting to parry low, so you can counter this only with the mp slap. Otherwise I wouldn’t stick out anything for fear of it being parried.

#16

Not too long ago I started inputting parry attempts in whole bunch of places and it seems to help a lot. I think if you have a certain rhythm and your opponent does a lot of these parry attempts in set places, then maybe that’s what you’re getting caught with so much.

If someone’s playing offense, play defense and try to slow down the pace. If they play defense, play offense. Unfortunately Hugo doesn’t have that many offensive tools that keep pressure on the opponent IMHO.

Hugo doesn’t have tools like Ken or Chun, but he has others…
Use the taunts as early as possible.
Use j.HP as AA.
Use his lp.360 as you would a poke.
Whiff into 360 instead of tick->360.

*The last two will make them want to jump like hell. That’s when claps become more dangerous IMO, since clap->f+HP does half stun and puts them in the corner more often than not.

I allways thought you could 360 hurricane kicks on recovery, I could be wrong, but it seems to work for me.

#17

I’m really having trouble when this Ken player does big time rush down and keeps throwing out standing jab, mp, couching lk, mk, uoh (of course along with the dashing in/out & jump in sometimes) etc. Now I don’t try to parry much unless I’m either down in a match and needs a 360 or if I just feel like doing parry into 720. Since Hugo’s pokes are slow it’s hard for me to poke back in close range when he’s constantly pushing me backward. So what would you do (besides parrying)?

#18

i found it so hard to play against a rush-down necro if i play defensively, once he get me into the corner, it’s almost impossible to escape…

#19

Hmm…

With that ken, jes learn that match up. Like i stated earlier if you play enough you would start to realize what and when you are going to get poked. What i try to do is buffer a low parry if they are in distance of “his” sweep range. If they dont throw out anything, so what. You might get lucky and land one when he does. If not, you arent really risking anything. Random low parries are pretty safe far away. If you want to play safer buffer the low parry then roll it to a crouching block.

Dont under estimate hugo’s pokes. If you know when he is going to throw a poke, throw your poke first to snuff. Or if he whiffs a poke (cept standing jab) try a low short right after. If he likes to whiff low forward your low foward can actually catch his whiff into a free sweep for you, jes react quicker.

Becareful of him whiffing standing jabs or mp far away. Most likely he going to do a low hk or mk. Ken can bait pretty easily. So him whiffing does 2 things: meter build or set up for high and low games.

Hugo pokes arent that bad. Keep playing and learning that match up.

As for necro. I dont have much experience playing a necro in a tourney. There is necro in so cal who is VERY good. His name is Mutantxp. I have seen play and i am very anxious to play him in a tourney. Till then i cant offer any help.

#20

do a standing fierce after a j.roundhouse can catch ur opp off guard easily, since they always expect a cr.forward after the j.roundhouse…just btw