Is this a strong enough case for at least one mass joystick maker to make ambidextrous fight sticks?

I know I sound predictable, taking about ambidextrous joysticks. Every one need a primary identity in the community. This was the main reason why I stepped in ShoRyuKen.com during the Street FIghter IV era. I do occasionally talk of other stuff, ad when I do, if it’s not about handedness, my ideas get a fir shake.

I understand for most people it’s either a person choice, assuming it matters enough to you. Let’s just say I got my first custom made ambi-stick by writing to Nintendo and Sega for recommendatitons during the Genesis/SNES era.

If it were only my performance enhanced, I’d would not evangelize so much, but just like evengelizing about God, you can either say Amen, ignore me or fight me. I’m not forcing anyone at gunpoint to make these mass market or to try one themselves. I’m just asking, if my story were true, even if you doubt, if you believe that I beileve I saw these events, could you understand why I would evangelize about ambidextrous joysticks?

I’m not asking you to full-throated agree, i’m just asking if you were in charge of a mass market (compared to On demand) joystick manufacturer, would this story be strong enough to make you want to investigate further, and if my single instance a strong enough story to be a sales pitch if you did decide to make it.

The best video that explains why joysticks are always on the left: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwyKx8TvRcE Notice it takes not having a choice in something that should be relatively easy to offer a choice on something fairly important that gets you thinking this way.

Preliminary evidence:

  1. I rented Pac-Land for the NES twice at my video store. The second time I rented a Beeshu Jazz along with it. I got way better scores with the right handed Jazz compared to the default NES pad.

  2. I got an NES advantage for one Christmas, some games felt awkaward with it and I preferred a pad. I was thinking if it were Stick-right, I might have imporved. Filed it under “nothing you can do about it”

  3. I saw a “Mexican” Street FIghter 2 somewhere on the road, It was empty, so I played one credit with Ryu, a character I couldn’t do well with a pad. I played stick-right side, and got to the bosses on one credit, where at home, I had troble beating the tsecond oponent with Ryu. I tried when I got back home at an arcade, but was a more standard version with two stick-left arrangements. I had trouble with the second opponent.

  4. In Golden Axe at home using the pad, when doing the “back and forth caught forever” glitch on 2 enemies on either side, and alternating. Every time I alternate left and right, I had a constant drift upward which broke the glitch.

Tangential, yet relevant background information information about joystick history, that will tick off the TLDR people

Hopefulyl I know estalished that getting a right handed joystick was right FOR ME. At this point it’s a personal decision, but one trip to a friendly get together changed the narrative to “Maybe it does matter, and you can’t just put square pegs in round holes.”

If you saw the video above, it suggests that in the arcade, the operator was the more direct customer of the arcade game maker, not the quarter-feeder. Arcade owners wanted to shorten credit lengths to feed more quarters, because that’s how the operators get paid.

But most people assume the home market was exactly the same as the home market, so most companies thought whatever was used i arcades is what home users want. There is some truth to that, with muscle memory. One company, Beeshu, which had the endorsement of the US National Video Game Team, the organization with the big pre-crash superstars like Billy Mitchell, listened to those players and asked how to enhance scores on home play, two answers was unanimous, 1) use an arcade style stick, and 2)have both left- and righted options, even an ambidextrous option for “switch hitters”. They had a bold statement, “Double your scores, or send it back for a refund.” So they advertised the performance advantage of picking your side.

Unfortunately, when the SNES came out, Beeshu lost focus and made a “Space Shuttle Pad” and not make an SNES and 6 button Genesis Superstick. They went out of business, and the Genesis Gizmo was the last system-authorized ambidextrous joystick, and last ambi fight stick for any console of any kind, until there were 2 unauthorized PS3 attempts.

I know there are some people who say that all joysticks in the NES era sucked, and that a pad was better in most games, due to the “cheap physical and mechanical construciton” of even rthe best off-the shelf joystick. One person suggesting importing an Ascii NES stick from Japan. But usually you’re mostly concerned about high parts as a performance enhancement when you are “fighting for millimeters”. Another example is tennis shoes, Joe average will not see any improvement in shoes, but ata certain level of eliteness or higher, that become important. Most people in NES era thought the natural ergonomic dvantge was more significant that being concerened on what’s inside, and thought of that as “fighting for millimeters”, only something an pro player would care about. But when the Dreamcast was networked, people thought they were a big fish in a small pond because the pond turned into an ocean. There were records, leaderboards, and ranks, and your world was not limited to family, friends, their families, ad pepole at the local arcade. And fighting games went online with the Original Xbox those are games with such precise controls that a pad will not cut it when there’s a leaderboard, and ANYONE can be your opponent. They may have an advantge of a joystick> Why should you be unprepared. Evr since then, “just any joystick” was not enough. They competed on internal parts. They competed on button layouts, and eventually SRK exploded with people tinkering and tying to get any edge and became a bulider meets buyr marketplace. That’s where I found Stan to make my stick.

I took my joystick to one house where 6 of us friends were at at the same time. We wanted to play Street Fighter 2 New Challengers Genesis, and I wanted to show off my ambidextrous joystick.

Before this day where I had the ambdextrous joystick, there was one person who dominated, and we usually played “Winner stays” rules. One other person can beat him about 1 out of 3 times, but everyone else, including me, were practice dummies to him.

First of all let me say that it’s garbage compared to other joysticks. The button ergonomics was awful, with a very wide gap between punches and kicks, and the buttons that may have been a good button-right curve (not sure) was was definitely a god-awful button-left curve. Plus after two weeks, the joystick maker’s idea of free customer service was solder it yourself. By today’s ergonomic and durability standards, this is an awful stick. That poor worksmanship convinced me to give up the quest until SFIV came out.

I used my right handed stick, (for the two weeks it was working). When my turn came up, I picked differen characters, and won every game for like an hour. Including the guy who always beats me when it’s 6-button pad vs 6-button pad. When he dominated, he lost one third of the games to the next best person and against everyone else, he was perfect.But this time, I was perfect, with any character. Last round I said, you choose any character as mine. I still beat them.

Again, still a personal story, until someone opened their mouth. The person who was the best player before today said there’s no way a right handed stick can make ANYONE that good.

“Anyone?” i asked. "Let’s put it to the test, you’re obviously the best player pad vs pad, let’s see if the right stick can make ANYONE better, or just me?

So everyone challenged this braggart. I said to consider whether left- or- right handed is a factor or not, first let them play with my stick left handed, as another control factor.

Of my 4 other friends, the one who won 1 pout of 3, now won 3/4 left handed. Another person won 2/4 games, the other lost all 4 times to him, even with the advantage of a left handed joystick.

A slight improvement, one that seems reasonable with a random sample. Now compare to right-handed.

Each of the other 4 people played 4 matches with 4 different character against the braggart. The right handed joystick was 16-0 vs the braggart when not controlled by me. That combine with my perfect session of about 20 games and everyone picking different characters to show it wasn’t a one-character or a one-player fluke.

But the thing that turns the story from “maybe, but the guy who lost against a right hand stick probably sucked.” to “WOW that is impressive!” is the identity of our common friend that was shut out by a right handed joystick.

Already he was pretty impressive in high school, he won his local Macedonia Ohio Blockbuster Video Sega Genesis Tournament. He was number 1 by a big margin. He could have won a big national tournment, because there was a prize of challenging other number 1s regionally and hopefully eventually advance to the Nationals.

Anyone reading this remember competing in the Blockbuster tournament? Did either you or someone you know get a store level number one score for either Genesis or SNES? If so, read the hidden notes and and let’s compare notes about the tournament.

He never got a chance to move on

The problem was he never got an invite to the next level… The owner of the store told him not every store winnere is guaranteed to advance, so he visited every Blockbuster in the counties that contain Cleveland and Akron Ohio, an every county tthat shares a border with either county. He compared scores. His Genesis score beats EVERY NUMBER 1 score posted in those stores.

If any number one player in the Blockbuster Genesis Tournament in any bBlockbuster video store in Cuyahoga, Lorain, Medina, Wayne, Summit, Stark, Portage, Geagua, or Lake counties I got a couple questitons

  1. Did you assume it was just a bunch of simultaneous local tournamnet and just have store level winners, or did you assume there was a national champion?

  2. Did you assume if you got the number one score in your store in the Genesis, you would automatically move on and have a regional battle of the store champions, or did you assume the number one scores were compared and only the best so many, or best on in each larger region was invited?

Then one of 3 things happened.

  1. If the store level was the highest level and you were told there was no higher level, then there was lots of assuming, uncalarity, and hype deflated.

2)I If only certain number ones went on, did you dare to compare and stop when you saw a higher number 1? Did you know the exact criteria and can a typical high school student can reasonably check to see if he qualified it it was the top so many i the nation, it’s be impossible to verify. If it was a region, how big is the region a winner is selected from? If that was the case, either he misread a score, covered too small an area, or was screwed.

If the number one of each store advanced and competed and was guaranteed a slot, then my friend was definitely screwed.

If it was a screw job, I suspect the reason the Blockbuster Manager used. He never got any notice that he was disqualified, so my friend couldn’t challenge the ruling because he was unaware… I suspect because he was involved in my community cable mini-golf tournament for 3 years, once as a commentator as twice as a contestant, and since one of the sponsors was a local mom-and-pop video store that he patronizes, in addition to Blockbuster, the manager was trying to screw him for associating with a mom-and-pop video store.

Now I don’t have the rules. I don’t know if there was a clause that disqualified him. If he got screwed, and we could prove it, then he could have sued. If the next level already took place by the time of the suit, then one of 2 things can happen. If all the games were comparisons of single player vs. computer games, he could have submitted scores at each level. Now if there was a 2 player vs game, then he would need some sort of compensation fo the manager screwing him over for breaking an undefined rule written in invisible ink. because even then it would be hard to rerun a tournament with head to head action to accommodate the wronged store champ.

But he’s good enough where he’s not one-and-done. He tried out for, competed in, and won “Life to the Power of X” also in the list are other accomplishments, including being the most consistently in the top 5 of iron man of gaming with one championship, and auditioning for WCG Ulitmate Gamer season one which featured the big tourmanent winners of the pre-Twitch era of video game championships, which offered one open spot. He applied, showed them the Life to the Power of X Video, he did well in tests, being the only one to score a goal in FiFA soemthing on the hardest mode, and one of two who tied. (He tied 1-1, one other person had perfect defense with no goals allowed, but couldn’t score.) Everyone else lost, some bad. What put him overt the top was the “life” footage, it was probably the most famous competition won by the wild card wannabes, plus the fact that it was an all-around gaming tournament so his specialty is winning a tournament similar to WCG Ultimate Gamer in format, AND he was either a co-winner or 1st place in 9 of the 10 days including being 1st in all 3 eliminations, being dominant in those games.

If you don’t know by now it’s Jamal “Zophar321” Nickens. Does the fact that the braggart was the most famous and dominant all-around video game champion of the mid 2000’s when Video Games on national basic cable TV were rare, and before bigger audiences with Twitch, make you say whoever picks up my idea has a whopper of a true fish tale to sell the joystick.

[details=“Circle of my high school friends. No famous gamers among the rest of us”]
The most famous any of the other 5 of us were was me hosting the Nordonia Open Minigolf tournament. I’ve a couple people stop me in public when shopping who only knew me by seeing the show. So accepted the fan chat. Jamal was one of my close male friends. i t was basically him as one of 3 neighbors close to my age in walking distance to my house neighbor (there was a fourth who moved out during high school) , a pair of brothers I met in high school because THEY were contestants in the second year and had a good friendship, a neighbor of theirs who went a local Cathloic High School, and a couple friends for Jamal’s old private school before he switched to public and the occasional contestants who wanted to be friends to some degree beyond the tournament.

As for female friends, the only one I knew before I went to high school was one of the neighbors, there were enough years where there were no girls in school. (behavior school) Then on day I went to a dance, where ironically enough, there were like 60 girls and I was one of 2 guys. After that I felt more comfortable an had quite a few female friends, who liked to exchange firts with me. But snce most had boyfriends, and it sems there was very little break-up drama, I had t settle on being a n onthe0side crush for many girls. Weirdly enough nn if them wantd to date me, because no one tol me when the were available, if they were. I should count how many girls I know this way. Maybe if I get to 26 I could be a contestant on Deal or No Deal and have have my 26 girls, now women, probably all wives, most mothers, be special guest case models. As far as NBC is concerned, they’ll work for free, but I’ll give each of them a 2% share in my pot, giving me 48% so they are basically co-contestants in the same game.[/details]

Does the fact that a person of Jamal’s caliber can sweep 4 out of 5 friends in SF2C when playing 6-button pad vs 6 button pad, lose a little of his edge when he’s on pad and others were on left-stick, but was goose-egged when facing a right handed stick from people he goose-egged pad vs pad sound like a memorable event if you participated in it? Do you believe that one day, my universal winning, and Jamal universally losing would be a strong enough case to make itr worth studying whether ambidexterity in a joystick is a worthy goal to pursue and can be advertised as a legal performance enhancement?

By the way, I’m not claiming it’s a unversal panacea, but if making ambidexrity just adds one button to the layout, to keep costs down, if it were desgined to be user-friendly, would a one-button’s worth of parts and extra labor be worth the feature, assuming all the things are the quality parts you want at a reasonable price, (whatever you deem those parts and prices to be)?

I believe it would imporve joystick sales y ading an ignored clientelle, while (I believe) very minimally turning off people who would buy their other stuff. And you SRK pros who build sticks and play game professionally, (or aspire to) don’t think like yourselves. Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who wants a joystick because they heard it improves Street Fighter, but is not exactly sure twat they want until they get some experience, but is not fanatical enough to hire someone for a pure custom. and an expert enough to know exactly what they want Think off-the-shelf market. Think store shelf. What would be more attractive to someone who just finised dabling and and wants to take the first step to impovoing their game. Wihtout openng the box and trying it, you are given lots of similar choices with slightly differet cpyrihgted button arrangement, and one tat stands out is pictured as ambidextrous, showing both left- and right- hand use. An apprentice would nt know the advantages an disadvantages of differing contour of uttons to have an opinion. But whether they want a left-stick like most on the shelf or whether they want the ambi-stick is a little more fundamental of a choice when starting out compared to button layout. But if the consumer doesn’t have the choice available, you ether corral conformity if they don’t question it, like a lot of people who only gamed beyond 1985 when Jamma was the near-universal standard, or you lose a sale to a custom order because they know the economies of scale are lost if there are separate left and right versions. In baseball Golf and Hockey, that’s the first thing they find out, are you a natural leftie or rightie. Sports shops make more money with separate sizes and L/R choices. Arcade owners make more money forcing left stick play. Beofre the crash, people were making mirroed 2600 sticks, and leftie adapters, but after, no one other than Beeshu seriously considered that question. And only twice since on PS3. A Qanbaand a Nyko.

Why handedness is fundamental and why ambidexterity, if done, right can solve many problems sing real world sports and realistic sports fiction examples

A lot of equipment make sense as separate left and right versions. Hockey Sticks, Baseball gloves, in music, guitars. In sports there is a competitive advantage in having a mix of left and right handed people. Someties being a switch hitter is good in baseball if you’re good enough on both sides, and in boxing to catch your opponent by surprise like Rocky in Rocky 2.

In mini golf courses, the house putter a long time ago came in leftie or rightie. But there were two problems. On busy days, it their ratio guess is wrong, people would be waiting for to correct hand. And an unforseen thing happened for the ulitmate solution, There are situations in mini golf where you have to contort your body in unnatural ways to line up a shot near a wall or obstacle using a one-handed putter the correct way. Some people found it handy to switch hit to would be easier than contorting a body, losing balance and having a rushed, awful shot. In the old days they’d ask the clubhouse to borrow the other hand. The reason it wasn’t done before was because in Large-scale golf, there are no bumpers or obstacles that would require ambidexterity, but obstacles were making having a leftie and rightie putter deisreable, giving one of each means they had less players at once. So to limit it to one putter per person, the ambidextrous mini-golf putter was invented. Alos no more guess of what percentage is left handed.

In baseball, there was a guy who got to the AAA level who was a switch pitche. Because of that, you would then have the problem of what happens when a switch hitter faces a switch pitcher. Unless there were some rule, and assuming there is such a thing as an ambidextrous/reverseable glove and it was 2 seconds to change, you’d have a forever dance of pitcher switching his glove and the bater changing sides. It’s a question of who would give in first. Anyone know of the siwethc pitcher rules that were made because of one person?

This sounds like a monologue from Apocalypse Now, when Kurtz is reflecting on the horrors of war gaming.

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Thius does seem long, now that I think about it. I try to deal with too many points. As a geneal rules of forum, if you have a lot of points related to a general topic, liek handedness in video games, is it better to have a unified long broad topic, or short, specific more minute discussiuions as separate topics.

I’m just afraid of over adding too many closely related topics too quickly that will be at least 75% shorter is hepng more or hurting more. I guess I can also make a Catch-all topic with just a link menu with just links to sub-topics in SRK.

Personally I think this is better so I don’t repeat and make you separate the wheat and chaff.

Opinons before I start?

Opinion? Don’t start. No one wants to hear your shit.

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I’m trying to find a way to say what I nwant to say without causing people to sayTLDR. (a form of which is the most common response.) Would more in number, smaller, more targeted topics be more polite?

Your evidence are just unsubstantiated antidotes.

Oh my fucking god, forget Beeshu.

Irrelevant.

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As it’s been told to you many MANY times, you are still focused on your “evidence” and, for some reason, trying to pitch this idea to custom stick builders. If we, for whatever reason, somehow agreed with you, were you going to point major stick companies to this thread?

You have to realize that major stick-making companies care primarily for one thing: spending less money to make more money. Player performance is not a priority. In the end, it’s all about sales.
Making two models (left-stick and right stick) of joysticks? One will sell, the other will less much less. Stock sits around not being sold = money lost.
Making ambidextrous joysticks? More R&D cost, more manufacturing costs, and you end up with a more costly joystick to the end-user who will use one or the other (never both). More cost to the consumer for additional “features” that they would never use = less sales = money lost.

That aside, as you already have been told multiple times, if you want to make an impact:

  • Make a prototype
  • Go to locals, and have the local players of ALL game types try it out, record results and opinions.
  • Go to majors (EVO, CEO, etc), and have the world-level high-level players of ALL games try it out, record results and opinions.
  • THEN you have MIGHT have something close to a case.

Until then, all you really have are personal anecdotes.

I agree sample size is too low to a big company to jump in blind, but high enough to know there is a chance that it looks very convincing early on, especially considering the degree of improvement and the degree of quality of person everyone defeated.

simultaneously my personal model and show protitype: progress
  1. I do have a prototype for myself being made. I think I will show it off. We’re just one bug away from getting the Paradise MC Cthulhu working with my stick. It does work direct USB on PS3, and ethernet works on Dreamcast. The dummy-proof easy-way to switch from leftie to rightie and vice versa was tested and works as expected.

There’s one more feature needed to be built, the external telephone operator bpx used to switch buttons on games without full remapping, which is a necessity in enough games, It’s a low tech button and direction remapping device that is even MORE flexable than the Xbox OS button change feature because unlike a Hori Fighting Commewander or an authorized Xbox fight stick relying on the OS and game opitons for swapping alone, my stick wcan deal with Genesis Classics in a way most Joystick owners say would make sense. (currently there is no way to have a row of 3 buttons or 2 rows of 3 buttons to be a more true-to-Genesis layout. This is because you need to change between a trigger and a bumper, and you can’t do that on Xbox One OS)

Also, we are adding more exotic systems. The Genesis, Atari Jaguar and 3DO should be an easy padhack. Astrocade and Master System don’t even need a sacrifice controller. I don’t know if a paddle 0% / paddle 100% binary switch is as easy as wiring it like a button and remove the potentiometer, knowing that adding a dimmer switch is as easy as adding a potentiometer between the light and switch, then the 23600 bosoter grip.

Colecovision Intelivision, and 5200 are the least straightforward ones. I think I see plans for a circuit for doing n 4/8-way Intelliviosn joystick interface.A bohoki device and a digital PC pad should help with the 5200, and all 3 I have to test the efect of connecting multiple inputs to one output, to allow a real keypad and ovverlay, or map a button to a keypad press…

Bu the way the old beeshu model of mirroring all buttons will not work if you have to duplicate 6-8 buttons just to get a decent contour. That’s too expensive that only diehard right-stickers will go for. I got 2 ideas:

Cost Efficient ambidextrous designs

As for making it close enough in cost and have a more desireable 8 button contoured layout and using as few mirrored parts. One joystick is a flipper with only a nine button layout to have a mirrored 8 button. The ninth button may come in handy for SF games that use Select as a taunt.

The other design is involving a 15 degree angle to make it vertically contoured, horizontally symmetrical and contoured on each respectivde sode, uses 8 buttons in the layout. the only thing it mirrors is twin joysticks. And extra joystick might be more expensive than one extra button, but Digital Twin Stick shooters can be accommodated, and the second stick might be useable as and R stick. I would say Super Smash Bros, but i don’t know if an MC Cthulhu can do digital actuations of an R stick an d ifit’s wise to actuate movement digitally. That;s a long shot.

The only extra things vs a one way joystick is twice as much internal wiring within the stick and 2 dB37s instead of onefor a left plug and a right plug, Plus Only one extra button if using the flipper model, and only one extra joystick instead if using the twin stick model.

The last necessary part, the button swapper, will need internal wirring, 15 3.5 mm cables for a basic setup using mPCBs or 18 using pad hacking and 30-36 3.5 mm females mounted, and 1M 1F DB37.

It’s modular so it’s easily swappable and less complicated to multi wire.

No company will care this early on and will would need solid numbers and evidence.
It may sound like enough evidence to YOU, but it’s not convincing anyone else.

I’m probably one of the guys around here who is the most pro-modular/pro-option in their arcade sticks, and even I don’t think you have anywhere NEAR a case yet that’s going to convince anyone here, let alone a mass-retail manufacturer.

Again, still just personal anecdotes and subjective observations on too isolated of an event.

South Paw stick for the South Paw players, now you can play with Terry Crews’ Stick.

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Dude, for real… I’ve tried to read through all of your threads and I can’t for the love of god figure out what your point is. Do you want a manufacturer to cater to your incredibly specific wants? Not gonna happen. Regardless of what you think the benefits are, the fact of the matter is that joysticks being on the left is more common than steering wheels being on the right even.

Just get used to it or make your own custom case, but don’t expect someone like Hori or Razer to adopt that kinda of major overhaul just because you think it makes a difference. When major console manufactuerers start putting directional pads on the reverse side, or common-style ambidextrious pads, then you’ll have an argument.

But holy shit dude, keep the entertainment coming.

Bravo @darksakul…LMAO

PSA: as a lefty, I can confidently state that OP does not speak for all of us.

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Well, those 4 friends were the only 4 people other than me to try it. So it has a 100% rate of effectiveness. I’m not cherry picking and not including those who fail. If i were to expand the test eventually, I will find a dud. But if me + the only 4 other people who tried it made it work, that’s a strong success rate

I don’t know what percentage of people improving is large enough to justify a new line, but this early 100% other than me + me make it a 100% help rate.

It may be better, but is the benefits worth the cost?

Do the Math> Show your work. My personal stick vs the cheapest possibles stick

My personal stick is way more expensive than the mass market model, because it has 2 extra options that may come in handy, or more likely be excessive, depending on what games and systems you own.

Here’s the most obscure, specalized feature. I’m using more wiring by having 18 separate ground wires corresponding to an individual button. This is only my model. This extra ground wiring is specifically for the Colecovision which has 2 grounds, and when you’re making reassiugable buttons a feature the only way it works is to marry the button and it’s ground. So if Button A is ground A and button B is Ground B, and this is not hypothetical this is a real example. For one title where if you own CV Tutankham, this will be a handy feature. If you don’t need Colecovision all you need is single ground wiring.

Also, if all you’re playing is Capcom fighting games, or all games with reassignable buttons, or all Xbox One games ( or if PS4 has that feature, the PS4) where button remapping is an OS feature built in, you may want to skip this. Its abutton reassigner. There are 18x stereo 3.5 mm double males, 36x stereo 3.5 mm, a male db37, a female db37 and wires going from one db37 to the closet half of 3.5 mm

So if you play only Capcom fighters, which is quite a bit of you, it’s designed so the default left-button mapping is an index-to-index mirror of what it is right-button. assumig you use a Cthulhu standard (it matters for Original Xbox) So the button box has a decent chance to be optional. Almost everyone can skip the CV wiring.

The last additional parts that are required for an ambidextrous stick is either a ninth button, or a second joystick. If the target mass customer is someone who cares more about ambidexterity first, but is not as picky about contours, which is usually an intermediate purchaser, the only extra cost vs a one-way is one button OR one joystick, depending on whether you want to save money, or add twin stick features.

Also one other thing. I don’t know how to wire or program a button swapping PCB. For my single model, working with a hobbyist stick maker, the 3.5 mm solution is WAY cheaper in labor. But if you’re making a thousand, maybe a chip would be cheaper because you have less physical goods and only have to use labor to program it once. So L/R and indivdual button/direction edit can be computer controller and save money WHEN MASS PRODUCED.

So if a mass maker wants to make a single console ambistick the only additional costs is either one button for the budget model or one joystick if you want the twin stick model, and a button/joystick programming chip if one isn’t already part of the arsenal.

I it’s an Xbox One only model, you can get away with no chip and just have 2 female connectors and pone male connector for easy L/R, and that would ONLY be needed if there’s no digital chip and enough people don’t want to fiddle fart with the Xbox OS. And if you use the Xbox OS, you ca elimin ate double wiring

How much does 1 button cost? That’s the cheapest way to add practical ambidexterity to an Xbox One fight stick. Some PS4 sticks already have a ninth button. The cost of one button and the wiring for it: That’s the answer to how much more it costs to make an ambi stick if a key concern was minimizing price. And that varies depending one whether you want pro stuff or basic mass market stuff.

No big manufacture is going to go along with this. The because part is irrelevant.
The stick makers are in the business of making money, not catering to the niche of the niche of the nichest niche.

You are already going too big, too many directions. Focus on one thing and one thing at a time.
You want to make your own Custom wonder stick sure, but don’t expect Hori or Razer take you serious with the mention of the Coleco. Maybe Retro-bit and Hyperkin cares about Retro, but the Coleco isn’t one of those things they are aiming to fill.

They already do. In the game menu.

Reminds me of Daigo’s Gafro Hitbox.

Also additional parts means higher costs, Big manufactures aren’t going to take it serious.

Except no one asking for this product, there is no demand.

But you post so much, so often.

But you have no idea how to install a PCB.

What?

Remember when GD was getting this quality entertainment?

:sob:

How would an ambidextrous stick even be wired? Guess instead of talking about the idea of it, maybe spend some time executing it.

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But how is he going to feed is false superiority complex?
Guy made a dozen or so threads talking about the exact same thing, but we seen squat of his project, just lots of paragraphs saying absolutely nothing.

An ambidextrous joystick would be too expensive to make for such a small market. You would need 16 buttons and it would have to be almost two feet wide. Shipping would also be a problem since it would weigh almost as twice as much as a regular joystick.

Hello @JimmyU , no ooe says you need 16 buttons, 8 on each side, to make an ambidextrous stick. I got 2 ways to do it.

The cheapest way to do it , assuming double wires and wiring labor is cheaper than 7 buttons, here’s a 9 button stick:

now turn it backwards:

So if you double the wires and have 2 plugs to plug a joystick PCB, the first thing is does is make it conform to Street Fighter format, assmuing stick-right uses index-to-index mapping. (lights on index)

Also you can buy this joystick shell and plug any PCB in one of the 2 ports, ad this does 3 things,

  1. any system that works with discrete inputs will work with it, (Cthulhu, 360+, Brook Retro, Brook USB, pad hacking from real controller)

  2. You can use more than one system by swapping out and in.

  3. it automatically adjusts left and right by taking it out of one end and putting it in the other, so, if you find Street Fighter 2 benefits from a right-stick because there’s more dexterity in harder-to-execute joystick moves (compared to later games) than one button at a time button with (compared to MVC games) short combos. Then when you play something more modern, using more technical button action, and more lenient joystick moves, swap out, change sides and swap in.

  4. The Mass producer can kind of use the Skylanders model, where the software and the portal connection to the console s licensed and system-specific, but the toys with benefits are unlicensed and work for all consoles, the main stick is unlicensed, but the hookup to each console is licensed. You give a bigger percentage licensing for the adapter, and make all the money off the joystick license free.

  5. as an optional feature, if you play any games with left-to-left mapping (in Tutankham, left button is fire left and right button is fire right. Flipping sides put left fire on right) or you don’t like the mapping but they don’t give you either any button swap options or if it does, none of them are the one you want, (Xbox One Genesis collection with no true Genesis default stick option, and Xbox One with very good but not complete button programming OS, I’m looking squarely at you.), don’t rewire your PCB, or wait for an update, do it yourself, and put a button remapping device in between the joystick and the PCB. (MIne for my purposes is an organized board with filled with 3.5 mm females. Just connect 3.5 mm M-M to complete the circuit. But maybe mass producing it will make a digital button swapper cheaper and easier.)

For arcade panels if you want to include ambidexterity, use this layout, if a second joystick is cheaper than an extra set of buttons (even if it isn’t in money, it’s cheaper in panel real estate) use this.

To optimally use this, tip your button hand towards your joystick hand, and you’ll have your button hand contoured, no matter which handed it is. Because a filppable joystick is VERY impractical in an arcade environment, twin stick with buttons in the middle is the best.

And photographic evidence that this is built, but not finished:

If I’m going to finish it, I’ll finish it for good. And the workmanship is definitely WAY better than the KY Enterprises one in 1993. My hired stick guy, Stan, got it working for PS3 and DC, but not anything else in Cthulhu. I’m calling Paradise Arcade tomorrow to find problem. And yes, the ambidexterity works perfectly fine for the Capcom arrangement.

Maybe you should of started with that post months ago

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@Darksakul Yeah, holy crap. He wouldn’t have caught so much flak.

I still don’t think you’ll see a company trying to mass-produce anything like this. The reason is real simple, it’s super niche in an already somewhat niche market. But cool prototype. Now to go read the other three threads you’ve made.