Is this mod legal?

Somebody wasn’t following the conversation. We were talking about FullSchedule style buttons with 2 directions mapped to them.

I believe the rule for marvel is that as long as you are not capable of pressing both forward and back at the same time (via old hitbox pcbs etc) that allow you to block both directions in the air then its fine.

No, Wiz specifically singled out FullSchedule’s stick which only does back and up and forward and up at the same time.

Tom (Cannon) also had this to say.

So basically, what the OP wants is fine. Mapping more than one direction to a single button however is now.

Also off topic.

I can care less about Mahvel. Anyways Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 fixed that glitch in the game engine.
But that point is m00t.

The point is X mod legal or not. I compared OP’s requested mod and situation to what happen to the FullSchedule fiasco.
Drawling on the similarities, also bring up what legal in UFGT may not be in Evo.
And this logic applies to other tournaments as well.

Back to the real point in the thread, did who ever this modder is was right to refuse Ahbee’s requested mod.
YES, the modder (who ever he or she is) can not perform the modification in good conscious.
Does the modder even needed to be in a moral/legal dilemma to refuse a mod, NO. A Modder (like any business person) has the right to pick and choose their clientele and what mods they are comfortable in doing.

Seriously we don’t need another FullSchedule UFGT thread. The issue is beaten to death, that horse is dead, became grass which another horse have eaten and we are not beating that horse which has already died.

Lesson here is keep your sticks with-in standards.

TO’s really need to get together and make an official standard of what controllers are legal. I should not have to argue with my modder what is legal and what is not.

TO’s has nothing to do with this and tournaments do not have to cooperate with each other.

You know all that standard? 1 Joystick, six buttons, a start and a select. Everything else is extras.
Home button, Player LED indicator lights, dual-mods, turbo and mode settings, a LS-DP-RS switch, all extras.

If your modder refuses to do a mod that is their right, end of story. It does not matter if it’s legal or not.
Go find another modder who would do the job if you feel so strongly, if not** SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!!**
That is how business works.

We modders do not do this work for charity, we don’t do this for a sense of duty or community and (for most of us) it isn’t our primary occupation.
For many of us this is a side business we do on nights and weekends and when time present it self.

See this, its a million and one modders, there bound to be one who willing to work on your stick. Assuming that you didn’t alienate then all yet.

/THREAD

Dude this is dumb. Look, adding extra directionals on top of your directionals is basically cheating. Look, adding extra punches to your punches is cheating. You already have a set of punches, and you already have a set of directions. Any extra on top of that is cheating or if not that extreme, then at least walking an extremely fine line between cheating and not.

If you really want faster directional inputs or whatever, then try shortening the throw in your stick and work on execution. If that doesn’t cut it, then get a hit box already. If you don’t like that option either, then quit playing fighting games.

also, if people started using their gates and thinking in square then this execution issue shouldn’t be as hard. QCB+UF is easy since you go f, df, slide db, slide up to uf. Since it’s SF4 I wouldn’t be surprised if you only had to do df, db, uf in a sliding motion.

My mod is different. In sf4 you press cr.hk to whiff punish attacks, but sometimes when I am trying to react very fast I press ‘down’ slightly after the HK, and st.HK comes out. But having a button for ‘down’ ensures I always press ‘down’ and HK at the same time.

Anyway I am not complaining that “execution is too hard”, I just want to know if something is legal. If something is legal why not use it to make your life easier? Also like @d3v‌ pointed it is legal at Evo.

As stated, if it’s a separate button just for down and down alone, then it is legal.

This could be addressed by working on your execution instead of trying to bend rules and spending a lot of money getting something modded. Plus, if you worked on your execution instead, then you wouldn’t have to worry about what’s legal at what tournament.

They do, and largely agree on what is legal and what is not based on EVO’s stance. UFGT is the only one that deviated on Fullschedule’s stick, and it doesn’t matter because it does something entirely different than what you want.

Point is, what you want is legal because it’s a single button for a single direction, just like d3v said.

You don’t have to argue with your modder, if he says he still doesn’t feel comfortable doing it after showing him EVO’s ruleset, then that’s the end of it and find someone else or do it yourself.

I’m honestly surprised people like OP and FullSchedule don’t just migrate to hitbox layouts. If there’s clearly a need for instant directionals, hitting a two-button up+forward is a small adjustment in the grand scheme of things and doesn’t violate the spirit and intent of the tournament rules. If you want an instant down button, a stickless arrangement makes a lot more sense than adding more buttons to the face.

Yes - feel like this needs to get more standardized. Seems like there’s a few different issues we’re talking about at the same time (commenting with the best of my knowledge):

  1. Hardware button remapping - i.e. swapping an existing button for another existing button. Examples of this include swapping LB/L1 with Back/Select or perhaps a directional input. Seems like this is tournament legal.

  2. Software button remapping - i.e. reconfiguring button mapping using in-game menus. Obviously legal.

  3. Hardware button macros (not sure if macro is the right word) - configuring one button to do two different functions via hardware. An example would be physically rewiring your LB/L1 button to jab + short for one button throw techs, or down + roundhouse for one button sweep. I’m under the impression that this is not legal at tournaments.

  4. Software button macros - EVO has stated that it is in the game, it can be used and is legal. i.e. in DC Marvel vs Capcom 2, remapping LT (assist 1) to jab + fierce for one-button dash. (That started a whole bit of controversy, especially since it was soon after the EVO transition from arcade to consoles.) Another example is having LB/L1 = Jab+Strong+Fierce.

  5. Duplicating hardware functions (which is what I think the OP is referring to) - doing a hardware modification to have a single button input duplicated. i.e. Having the down function on your joystick AND on a single button as well at the same time. This seems like a grey area to me right now and we could use a verdict on it. I’d guess it’s probably not tournament legal but I’m not a TO, and more importantly, it’s not my rules to adjust or give a shit about. Something in vein with this - maybe like a #5B - would also be adding physical additional inputs outside of the “core 15” - up, down, left, right, x, y, a, b, lb, lt, rb, rt, start, back, and home (xbox notation). You’d probably have to figure something out with the right and left analog stick buttons but since you can’t configure those in street fighter or many games it may be moot.

Off topic but I’ll mention anyway.
The problems I have with hitbox.

  1. Only one company make them. If that company goes out business, all the time I spent practicing on it will go to waste. Also creates a monopoly.
  2. Expensive. Getting the Xbox version will cost you over 250 with shipping and tax. This is related to #1. No competition allows them to drive up the price.
  3. Not on amazon. Just makes it harder buy, and communicate
  4. Long shipping time. You break yours you probably have to wait nearly a month to get a new one.
  5. Have to bring it wherever you play. Not many people have a hitbox, If I go to the arcade or friends house I dont want to carry it with me.
  6. Not completely accepted in community.There are some people who will treat you like an outcast. (not sure on this one since but its the vibe I get from stream monsters)
  7. I grew up playing on stick.
  1. Jasen’s Customs, Tek-Innovations, Foehammer, B15SDM, and anybody else can make an all button arcade controller. Hell, you can even make one yourself with little effort. Its just buttons. Very simple.
  2. See #1.
  3. I’ll give you this one but it’s the nature of our niche.
  4. See #1.
  5. Who cares?
  6. …ok.

Shoot, i just spent the better part of a week learning CAD just to make my own hitbox. There are multiple hitbox builders. The Hussers don’t hold a monopoly because they don’t force people to buy from them. They made the standard, sell their own, but do not prevent people from building their own or contracting someone else to build one for them, and have not sent out c&ds to people who do.

If they start trying to get other builders to c&d and have patents in place to make that happen, you’re right. But that’s not happening.

My hitbox should barely cost over 150.

As for no universal availability, well arcades are dying everywhere but Japan now, so what’s stopping you?

To top that all off, Hitbox is a derivative work anyway. It’s based on the idea of having a keyboard like functionality. There is nothing stopping anyone from coming up with another derivative idea if the guys behind Hitbox decided to C&D people.

IMO, it’s easy to do a standardization of controls:
4 directional inputs which covers a pad, stick, and hitbox
8 attack inputs
Start and select and home

That’s all that should ever be needed. The upcoming console generation has not changed the standard so this should still suffice over the next decade. Also, this standard also covers any games that have less attack inputs. The layout should be any combination of the above as long as there are not more than this. Anything less is also perfectly fine, for example if someone for who knows what reason only had 3 directional inputs then they aren’t breaking the standard. If you have 5 directional inputs, then you’re DQ’d. No one should need more than 4 directional inputs ever. Anything more is borderline cheating. Not that I’d care if someone beat me with such a layout, but others will and it makes no sense to have more than 4 directional inputs.

This is still going on? You said you want it to make the game EASIER. Can you not see why that’ll rub modders and TO’s up the wrong way? You might as well fit a strobe light attachment to blind your opponent, fuck it, lights are allowed. Fair right?

Get someone on the local modders thread to do it and know that its your responsibility, not the modders when you turn up and a TO turns it down, or you spend the whole night being asked by your opponents ‘so…why does your stick have training wheels?’

Isnt there 8 directional inputs on a joystick? Dont gampads have double direction inputs? One with dpad and one with anaolog stick.

Dont know if this is possible but,
What if I cut the ‘down’ input on the joystick and moved it to a button. Then I made the joystick’s ‘down-back’ area larger, covering both the ‘down’ area as well as the ‘down-back’ area. Would that be legal?