Item Drop in Brawl: Data and Discussion


I created a custom stage: Small size. I placed four horizontal square (cube, if you want to get technical) blocks, horizontally, in the most center part of the stage. The left most part of the stage is considered 0, and the right most, 4. Where each block meets is 1, 2, and 3. And in the middle of each block it’s 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, and 3.5. I used two players in this testing.

Item Drop Placement

Categories: Percents, Distance, and player position
[Even/Uneven %, Far ends/balanced (equal distance from player and edge), and 1p left/right]
[Items in reach - Left player gets 0 through 2 for their total range and 0 and 0.5 for their “next to” range. Right player gets 2 through 4 for their total range and 3.5 and 4 for their “next to” range. Example: 1p - 23:5 (23 is the total, 5 the next to)]
[1p% - 1p has the higher percent]

Even % - Far Ends - 1p Left
Total Drops: 148
Average Drop Placement: 2.1
Mode Drop Placement: 3.5
Drops per position:

0    -> 4
0.5 -> 17
1    -> 21
1.5 -> 21
2    -> 22
2.5 -> 11
3    -> 23
3.5 -> 25
4    -> 4

Items in reach:

1p - 85:21
2p - 85:29

Even % - Far Ends - 1p Right

Even % - Balanced - 1p Left

Even % - Balanced - 1p Right

1p % - Far Ends - 1p Left

1p % - Far Ends - 1p Right

1p % - Balanced - 1p Left

1p % - Balanced - 1p Right

2p % - Far Ends - 1p Left

2p % - Far Ends - 1p Right

2p % - Balanced - 1p Left

2p % - Balanced - 1p Right

Item Drop Frequency

Basically, I sat there, on my custom stage, and watched the timer. And when I saw a item appear in my peripheral vision , I wrote down what the seconds showed on the timer.

Categories: High frequency, Medium frequency, Low frequency, and None (lol).

[The times shown are the times between drops]

Total Drops: 50
Average Drop Time: 13. 571 sec
Mode Drop Time: 15 sec
Median Drop Time: 14 sec
Range of Drop Times: 10 - 17 sec

Note: I have only test on Food so far for my testing. Sandbags and Beam Swords will come later, for every category. (Yeah, I know. That’s a lot of data to gather and stuff.

Note 2: I will be doing more testing on categories already done, to add to the amount of drops tested.


Item drop position: Pretty balanced, somewhat favoring 2p and right side.

Item drop frequency: For high frequency, after an item drops, 10 seconds later seems like a good time to prepare for the next item.

Overall: With position looking balanced and frequency having certain time ranges, item drop in brawl isn’t looking completely random.

My thoughts

I’m not saying that items should or should not be legal in competitive Brawl. What I’m doing is looking at items in a different way. Not what they do during the match and the use of them. But how they do it and get there. Do items drop at certain time intervals? Is the
location drop for items random, or does it change depending on certain factors? (Like: character positions, percents, stage size, platforms, player ports, etc.)

Smash is a game that relies on items. Smash players are the ones that turn them off. And you can’t deny the fact that we have just put off item testing like this, because we’ve assumed that items are just completely and totally random.

We have to take into consideration that Brawl is not completely liked because of it’s turtle style of play (camping). If there is a pattern in the “randomness” in item drop in Brawl, items could have some viable use in competitive Brawl. Hell, we play even when there is tripping, which is random.

And what can me testing items and their properties do to hurt the smash community? It will spark the debate of item use. Nothing can be said, though, until I have tons of data to look over and form a hypothesis with. For now we can play Brawl how we’ve played it for a year now.

Brawl is not Melee. Brawl plays and feels different than Melee. Brawl is not appreciated. If there is some order in the chaos of items, then we can make Brawl better. Maybe.

Any input and/or thoughts would be highly appreciated.

Thank you,

Reserved post.

Only items set on HIGH are random as fuck. Med is fine.

BTW, items should be used more often. Back when Brawl started I was against items like a stupid fucker.

It’s not as random as you think.

Even on high? Really? Wow. That opens up even more possibilities…

I am interested in your data…You’re going to be gathering this of your on volition correct? Keep posting of your findings…

This looks like it’ll be interesting! Next time I visit my parents place I’ll play some brawl with items with my brother and see if I can use what info you might gather or something.

If I had Brawl, I’d help you out. Collecting data is fun! Sometimes.

We ran and posted tests like these when Brawl first launched, and many of the hardcore items players were using this knowledge to do very well in all-brawl events.

Sonichuman: Yes, I made the decision to do this.

Keits: Where is the data you collected? And what is “All-Brawl?”

All-Brawl is less than half a page down in the Brawl forum you are currently posting in.

Im sure the data we posted is in this forum somewhere to, but the conclusion was the same. Items spawn on a pretty controlled timer, and dont favor either player noticeably within 1 stock of eachother.

So it’s basically ISP, but with less rules.

… Not even close…


Look, ISP is still a suggestion that one person (or a group of people’s) opinion on what is ‘fair’ is more important that someone else’s.

All-Brawl is our best attempt at playing with everything intact, ignoring any suggestion from any one person or group that something is unfair, and just playing the game to all its extremes.

Banning everything, banning half of everything, its all the same mindset, just different degrees.

All Brawl is/was the only ruleset getting competitive play that embraces the game for what it is.

All brawl baby, up that metagame, etc etc

The only gripe I have with All Brawl are SOME items and maybe 2 stages needs to be banned…

They dont though. That’s your opinion. Other people think nothing needs a ban, and others thing more needs banning. Thats why All-brawl is different. It ignores everyone’s opinion and lets the game be what it is.

On top of that, results have proven that none of the items nor stages need a ban.

Well the only stage that COULD be banned in All-Brawl is 56M OR Mario Bros. Both stages have way to many hazards for players to handle that well.

Aren’t the players allowed to pick stages in All-Brawl? if that’s the case then if neither person wants to go to that stage then they won’t pick it on the fact of them thinking it will ruin their chances…but if they think they can win then why not?

75m was my favorite stage, and the hazards there are completely predictable.

Mario Bros is a good counterstage to quite a few characters.