"It's a Trap!" - Poison Frame Traps (Updated 6/2/2013)

poison

#1

A wonderful friend of mine instructed me on Poison’s frame trap(s). More than likely this will be updated as my knowledge further increases. Work in Progress.

THE BASICS:

What is a frame trap?

A **frame trap **is when a player purposely leaves small gaps in their block string to make the opponent believe that they are able to attack back. An opponent will most likely try to attack with a move that has a fast start-up; like a jab/short. When the opponent decides to attack back during this string, the start-up frames of their move will activate but the active aka ‘hitting’ frames will not. This will result in a counter hit.

What is a counter hit?

A **counter hit **is when your attack interrupts the startup/active frames of an opponent’s move. In most fighting games, a counter hit usually leads to more damage and will cost your opponent a lot of health if it occurs.

In SFxT, landing a counter hit grants you more advantage on hit, leading into combos that could normally not be performed or makes certain difficult links a lot easier to perform.

There are also various states that would not usually occur if a move was not considered a counter hit. These states are known as **crumples, slips and staggers. **

What are crumples, slips, and staggers?

A crumple is when an opponent slowly drops to their knees and slowly falls to the ground. The animation is similar to getting hit by a focus attack in the *Street Fighter *series. The opponent is vulnerable until they hit the floor completely. Remember to perform your combo early when your opponent crumples. Hitting them too late will cause them to go into an air reset, which will land them back on their feet.

A **slip **is when an opponent slips to the floor. (Derp) To my knowledge, this is a Tekken term. When a slip occurs, the opponent is vulnerable to any attack for a moment as they try to get up again. This state will allow you to combo as you would normally.

A **stagger **is when an opponent gets attacked by a move and reels back before returning to back to neutral state. Same concept as the other two. In my opinion, this state has a shorter window to continue than the other two but I could be wrong.

MAIN PURPOSES:

-Pressure your opponent.
-Setting your opponent up for counter-hit.
-Open passive/defensive players.
-To watch your opponents’ habits.


Learning Poison
#2

THE FRAME DATA KNOWLEDGE:

Knowing your character’s frame data is important for various reasons. A lot of players learn through experience on what moves can be punished or what moves out poke the other. But learning the frame data as well will definitely help you in the long run. It’s beneficial to you as a player because you know how your attacks work, how long they take to come out etc.

So if you haven’t yet or are even the least bit curious, go and take a look at your characters frame data. (Will post links here soon.)

THE FRAME TRAP FORMULA:

Ingredients:

-The start-up frames of the second move in the frame trap.
-The advantage on block of the first move.

Formula:

The difference between the start-up frames of the second move and the advantage on block of the first move which must be a non-negative number. So it should look like this:

Start-Up of 2nd Move (minus) Adv on Block of 1st Move = The frame window of opportunity for the opponent to attack/think they can attack.

Example:

Ryu’s crouching medium punch is +2 on block. His crouching medium punch also starts up in 4 frames. So as a result, this can create a frame trap. Let’s use the formula above to show this.

4 (Start-Up of Crouching Medium Punch) - 2 (Advantage on Block of Crouching Medium Punch) = +2

So this means that your opponent has a 2 frame window to attack. If they choose to attack between the two crouching medium punches or after the second crouching medium punch, they will more than likely eat a counter hit.

HOW TO BEAT A FRAME TRAP:

Any move that has invulnerable frames at the start up of the move will beat frame traps.

Example:

Ryu’s Medium Shoryuken (Dragon Punch) starts up in 3 frames and is invulnerable from the 1-4 frame. So since his active frames haven’t kicked in yet, the invulnerability of this move will save Ryu. The result is that you end up taking the shoryu.


#3

EXAMPLES:

Note: A lot of Poison’s normal are special cancelable. (including her sweep!) It is a great idea to cancel into L or M Aeolus Edge or LMT for opponents that are blocking. Use Whip of Love if you land the counter hit or need to stay in close as it is relatively safe on block.

1.) CR. LP, CL.S HP = 3 frame window

2.) CR. LP x2, FAR.S MP = 5 frame window

Even though this particular trap has a larger window for your opponent to mash-out of, this trap is useful against opponents who like to neutral jump. Regardless if the ST. MP hits, cancel into LMT for safety, or Aeolus Edge to set up a fireball trap and go in for a high/low/throw mixup.

3.) CR.LP x2, ST. LP, FAR. ST MK = 3 frame window

This trap is similar to the one above and works well when the opponent is cornered. Because you’re standing, if the opponent tries to use raw launcher, it will beat/trade. Be weary of using the HP version of Aeolus Edge as it can get beat by reaction super/cross art. If they have the meter don’t do it. If they lack meter, abuse it. The slow fireball especially in the corner is a strong fireball trap game.

Another strong tip is to end your strings or accidental boost chains with EX Aeolus Edge. It will cause some chip damage and make your mistakes safe. If your opponent is in the corner, you can link a ST. LP. (Distance dependent)


#4

Not sure if this counts, but I use it nearly every match and am B rank at this point so here goes:

-EX LMT seems to have fantastic frames from a fullscreen block. Anything short of most EX specials can be crushed by an immediate crouching jab after EX LMT. I’ve even stuffed Supers with proper timing. The crouching jab can lead into a full magic series / tag cancel from LMT, though your mileage will vary on the tag cancel.


#5

Wonderful! Her LMT is already positive on block anyway so I assume her EX version must be much better!

It’s not so much a frame trap as it’s more like people who don’t know about her frame data just like to push buttons. Hence, they get hit/counter hit with jab. Her EX LMT also goes through projectiles with a good read and reaction.

I can see how useful it is to use as a switch cancel since she’s so positive on block. I would’ve never thought to use it!


#6

Well this thread doesn’t actually have any noted Frame Traps for her specifically…so I guess I’ll Contribute something, some of the more obvious ones and something i just found out…not sure if you guys knew already or not -_-’ but one thing first. :lk: version of Love me tender is +2 and all other versions are +3 on block, just so you know.

the first will be one of the easy one, Cr. :lp: ~ 1-2 frame delay Cr. :lp: ~ Cr. :mk: < ender. This is a no brainer as shes +3 on block with Cr. :lp: , pretty much have a +1-2 frames if you do another Cr. :lp: as its startup frames is 4 frames. Most characters don’t have a 3 frame jab/short so its even better against them, this test was Vs. a 3 frame Jab(Ryu’s Cr. :lp: ).

the next one is similar to the last one as the frames are the same pretty much, and thats after a blocked :mk: / :hk: / EX LMT to a 1-2 frame delayed Cr. :lp: ~ , This frame trap will be used alot, almost abused even as it can be a true block string as well, I personally think mixing it up between the true block string version and the frame trap version will get you better results as with the block string version you can walk up throw or CADC and throw as well, other ways to use your tools I guess.

The next one is something similar to what i had just posted in her GD thread…and it’s very tight meaning its a 1 frame difference frame trap, but the good thing about frame traps, they don’t really need to be exact. Cr. :lp: then 1 frame delay into Cl./St. :mk: is pretty good. reason why is because if you land a counter hit cl. :mk: you can link into Cr. :mk: and that can lead into either a stronger ender or even a damaging Boost combo as Cl./St. :mk: is +5 on hit! you can use cl. (Note this combo is only possible in the corner) :hp: but the frames are tighter and you get pushed back farther if blocked, but the reward is abit better damage though~

anyways thats what I got for right now…


#7

+1 for title


#8

Honestly, Poison’s best frame trap for me is just her Hard Aeolus Edge. I think of it like Sakura’s slow meaty fireball. Whenever scoring a knockdown, let it go and you’re safe to do any Love Me Tender, her overhead which is normally unsafe even on hit becomes safe, c.mk buffered into anything you want or just mix it up with a throw on block.


#9

Not trying to pick on you but you got alot things wrong here…

First Meaty attack =/= frame trap.
I listed frame traps…and why they are frame traps.
Meaty Aeolus isn’t a frame trap…no frame advantage, or anything.
Her overhead is NEVER safe, I don’t care what you do before it, it’s not safe. I can DP after if i’m hit…
Cr. :mk: is a good move but not something you want to be using…you want to use Cr. :lp: or :lk: then link into it…If you do it right…you’ll actually frame trap them with that then with anything else you listed.


#10

You seem very negative. I’m just trying to share good information that I use myself whenever I play to help fellow Poison players. Of course it’s not a frame trap by definition, but setting that up on a knockdown forces your opponent into blockstun (assuming they don’t roll). If you play SF4 at all, you know that meaty fireballs allow characters like Dhalsim or Sakura to do things that normally are not safe. If you force your opponent into this block-stun, you can’t mash out with a DP. You can do an Alpha Counter, but as long as they’re in block-stun, you can’t mash out of block-stun. Everything you mentioned was under that scenario.


#11

sigh ok lets get a few things straight. I appreacate anyone who post “correct” information in these threads. Yeah Poison is a character not many people play but I don’t need people getting the wrong idea about anything else. If I see things that are wrong, I gotta say something about it. I’m not the forum mod but i’m the closest thing to it.

If it’s not a frame trap by definition, it doesn’t belong here, it’s a set up and should be explained else where. I can’t be any more clear then that my friend. Most if not all what I posted are true and legit frame traps i’ve worked on for months since i’ve played that character since day 1(pre-release too).