It's mini-gief with a divekick

yun

#1

I forgot about these forums, haha. Anyway, here’s some new tech for you guys I randomly found out about awhile back and I’ve been annoying people in Montreal with for awhile. You can kara-cancel a chained stand short. So what does that mean? Just think Mini-gief or pre-nerf Fei and you can figure it out. It’s super easy to do and really fun once you figure out the timing (which is very variable depending on what you wanna do). Doesn’t change the outcome if people have already decided to jump or backdash or whatever but really fucks with peopel who try to jab out (i.e. Rog, Bison, basically everyone in the game, lol).


#2

This sounds interesting, but would you mind explaining a little more for those of us who might not get the ‘mini-gief’ or ‘pre-nerf fei’ references? I’m totally new to Yun and have been trying to learn em, so I’m almost certainly missing something and making myself look foolish right now. But assuming you’re talking about a kara grab, wouldn’t the opponent be in hit or block stun if you’ve just chained into an sLK, making them un-throwable?

The last thing I want to do is derail your thread, I just have no idea how regular-sized-Gief kara cancels from a chain. lol


#3

You kara-cancel the short so you grab them right out of block stun. The timing is variable so you can do ex or not.


#4

Thats pretty sick. its also way easier than the cr mp xx late cancel cmd grab


#5

Thank you for clarifying. Given how fast chains are, sounds difficult to kara cancel a chained light attack into a half circle… but hella effective. Can’t wait to mess w/ it, nice work. :slight_smile:


#6

Hi Edma, do you know who Chi-Rithy is maining in Ultra ? Is he sticking with Cammy or did he switched characters ?


#7

Yeah the c. strong thing I think is like a 1 frame timing that is way too risky to do cause if you fuckup you die. This is much easier and you can chain into stand short from any of the lights basically so you force a guessing situation by eliminating the jab mash out. Screw around with it and you can figure out the ranges and timings but basically, well, it’s MINI-GIEF/OLD FEI WITH A DIVE KICK.

Sadly, Yang can’t do this. :frowning:


#8

Which version of command grab seems to have the most natural timing with this? I haven’t been able to play for a few days (damnit), so haven’t been able to mess w/ it yet.


#9

It doesn’t really matter, all the non-ex throws have the same range. Personally I do short~forward if i want the normal version and short~forward(really quickly to get short and forward to register as one) if i want the ex but you can probably do short~forward+rk. But honestly I almost never do the ex because half the time i do it too fast and they are still in block stun/immune to throw state so I’d rather just do the normal one.

I forgot to mention that the jabs and shorts can do different block stun amounts so use which ever one you are comfortable with. Also, I feel like close stand jab moves you closer when you go into the stand short though I haven’t really tested it.


#10

I think you’re right, mainly because the LP LK MP target combo seems to have very little pushback. When I’ve been doing command grab in general, I’ve been doing mainly EX (though w/ no claim whatsoever that that is correct). So its interesting that you’re primarily doing the normal version.

I had no idea non-EX grabs all had the same range! If that’s the case, is there a reason to be using one strength over another? And lastly, just curious which normals (including dive kick if it applies) you find work best for successfully ticking into command grab? OR, are you using this kara technique exclusively for your grabbing? I tested it in training and it seemed to work fine, but haven’t yet tried it in combat. Lol


#11

he only has one command grab. all buttons are identical.

tick of normals with the most frame advantage which would be cr mp/cr lp [+2], and st lp [+3] but from now on i will only be using kara canceled command grabs if im ticking from a light normal and a normal tic command grab off of cr mp.

A late cancel command grab is ideal of cr mp but it is very strict and messing it up wiffs a command grab so thats for another day. Dive kick into command grab could work but i dont like that as it is impossible to hitconfirm and if you hit anything but their toes its gonna be pretty shitty.

you can also do longer strings and kara his command grab off a lp shoulder for more range so cr mp cr mp kara ex cmd grab is possible


#12

Just to be clear, the input is just light kick kara canceled into command grab? So a normal string like jab, jab, short, grab will work because of added range?


#13

no so it works like this for the 2 karas

Edma lk kara tenshin:

cr lk, cr lk/cr lp, st lk kara tenshin

cr lk cr lk/cr lp, You chain the st lk and kara cancel it into a command grab like any other karas

the other kara grab: lp shoulder kara tenshin

Kara Lp Shoulder EX Tenshin:
3, 2, 1, 4, 6, lp ~ lp+mk+hk [lp plinked into 2 kicks]

here is a vid that i hope explains it.

The cr mp late kara tenshin utilizes this:
Example:
Command grab has 2 active frames
you can cancel a command grab from “frames” 1 2 3 4 5 frames
if you cancel it from frame 1 the command grab wiffs
if you cancel it from from frame 3, the active frames hit on the first throw-able frame and on the last frame of the command grab [3rd frame after you can perform a reversal]
cancel on frame 4 cancel you can still conect but now there is a gap
cancel on frame 2 it will wiff


#14

I have no problem doing the dp, qcb p~k kara grab. I tried the lk kara. Either it doesn’t go very far, or I’m doing it wrong. The one from the vid is amazing and works very well, though. You guys just keep saying kara the lk, but I don’t see what the actual input in. lk plink into another kick? It sounds good, but right now I’m not understanding the inputs. If this is practical, hopefully someone will make a vid or at least show the inputs for the whole thing.

For example: Ken’s kara grab input is 6mk~lp+lk
Yun can kara cmd grab the way you described, or he can do 6 2 3 2 1 4 p(or pp)~k
You guys are saying late cancel the blocked lk into lk kara tenshin. I’ve never heard of him using lk to kara, and unlike other kara moves, lk doesn’t push him forward, so I don’t get how he’s getting extra range or what the input is.


#15

It’s not about getting extra range, it’s putting the opponent into block/hitstun and cancelling a light attack into the cmd grab to get rid of the long start up so you grab them right out of the block/hitstun.

The input is clk, clk, hcb, lk~mk. Depending on how much of a gap you leave between the plink, you either get EX or reg command grab. The mechanics behind it work like this (I believe anyway); if you did clk, clk, slk, then that is a chain and a true block string. The Kara lk cmd grab kara cancels the s.lk into the grab. Remember Kara doesn’t mean ‘add range’, though its usually used that way, it just means you’re cancelling an input by adding another input quick enough.

A good example of how it’s used and why its probably the best way to land the grab is to go to training, record yun doing clk clk hcb lk~mk, block it with the 1p character and try to tech after the two clks. As mentioned, if you know its coming, you can reversal or back dash, but it will beat normals and blocking (obv).


#16

Thanks a lot. I got it working, and what you describe is exactly what I’m seeing. It’s really good. As you said, if hit a button at the perfect time, it’ll reversal, but it’s a pretty tiny window. I think it’ll beat crouch teching on anyone who has a lk slower than 3 frames, even if they’re mashing tech. I tested it with some counter hit frame trap setups, and this is really nice. This character is so stupid good now.


#17

Also, don’t forget that you can use cr.lp before the st.lk to get more blockstun. e.g. cr.lk xx cr.lp xx st.lk kara tenshin to get more block stun.


#18

chain st lk kara EX tenshin is completly mash proof if you time it. You have to mash reversal, jump or backdash.

If you jump or backdash, cr lk os lp lunge blows up both and frame traps blow up jumping. I understand why kaz uses ex tenshin so much after lights now after this thread.

This is one of those tech post that im sure the top yuns knew about but holy shit does it change the game for the plebs lol. Its too much


#19

Yeah cr. lk qcf st.lp (for OS lunge) to hcb lk ~ mk is really great for a meaty ground mixup, and st.lp gives him the most blockstun of his lights.

The motion is pretty involved however, its very easy to mess up