Jav1ts and other's TOP SECRET ROG TRICKS :)

balrog

#1

New rog tricks most rog players don’t know about. Just thought I would share :slight_smile:


Tricks 1 through 10 were compiled as visual aids on how to do them thanks to xaaz !
Here is a link to the video: [media=youtube]qYIB821e-Ts[/media]
** Trick #10 was wrong the first time so he re-did it. Here’s a link: [media=youtube]OR6ZWiHE-4c[/media]

Trick 1: Force Stand Combo -vs- crouching ryu/akuma/ken/balrog/rufus

-If you jump in on crouching ryu with jump fierce then when you land immediately press close st. fierce, the st. fierce will hit with its late active frames giving it more +frames on hit (normally it’s +2 on hit, this trick makes it +4 or +5) and it forces stand, allowing you to combo far st. jab or cr. short into EX rush upper combos (normally EX rush upper whiffs on crouching opponents but this combo forces stand). This trick can come in handy to maximize your damage on a crouching Ryu/Akuma/ken/balrog/rufus instead of just doing his basic headbutt BnB.

*this combo also works on Claw and Dictator but the timing is tighter.
*Note to land this combo on Akuma, replace Jump-in Fierce with early jump RH.
-thanks to tetrisburger for confirming this trick on more characters.

Trick 2: Full Combo punish on blocked Bison/Blanka Ultra’s.

-If you block Bison’s ultra, once you start blocking, hold up-back. When you come out of block stun you will jump at Bison as early as possible then do an early jump-in RH. Bison will not be able to block and you can get a full combo on him such as jump RH, close st. RH, cr. strong, EX rush upper, cr. jab, cr. strong, Fierce headbutt. That’s a really nasty high damage/stun punish and it builds good meter.
-If you CROUCH block Blanka’s full ultra (must be a complete crouch block or it will not work), then immediately jump at Blanka with an early Jump-in RH, you can also get a full jump-in combo. This punish is tougher than Bison’s because you have to go from down-back (for the crouch block) to up-forward (for the jump-in) as early as possible. If you do it even 2-3 frames late Blanka will be able to block or EX vertical ball. It’s still very a good punish to know for maximum damage.

Trick 3: How to combo into headbutt on crouching blanka

  • Normally when you try to do Balrog’s cr. jab jab short >> fierce headbutt BnB on a crouched blanka, the headbutt whiffs. If you end the link in cr. strong instead of cr. short, Blanka’s hitbox moves higher allowing the Fierce headbutt to combo and obviously from there into Ultra for that extra needed damage.
  • Thanks to Jwong for learning that trick.

Trick 4: Jump back fierce trick after knockdowns. * New Combo into ultra. *

-If you knock someone down in the corner with throw or cr. RH, then dash up while they are knocked down, then immediately hold up-back during the dash, then do Jump fierce on the way down, the Jump back fierce still reaches even if they are crouching (except blanka). If you stored the charge properly you can then land after the fierce connects and combo into Ultra for 12 hits. If you don’t have an ultra, super is faster and that combos also. You can even connect Standing forward after the jump back fierce, and cancel the st. forward into super for big damage. It is a nice trick because when people see you jumping back they think the pressure is off so they naturally stay in down-back or they try to move and get hit. Shotos can DP the Jump back fierce but if balrog does not press fierce the DP will whiff. Also if the opponent tries to jump straight up or back, they eat a fierce headbutt, if they jump at you, you can jab headbutt or cr. fierce. This trick works because when you dash in to the opponent while they are knocked down, you are deep into their hitbox, essentially making your jump back a shorter jump. If you wait til they get up the jump back fierce will whiff.

Trick 5: Speeding up your Supers and Ultras by 1 frame + useful punishes

-If you activate rog’s super with a kick button, it comes out one frame faster. It comes in handy when you do Dash>>super vs fireballs because sometimes one frame makes all the difference. Two good punishes for using super with kicks is punishing blocked Honda EX sumo headbutt with super, and punishing blocked akuma cr. RH with super. Being able to punish blocked EX headbutt in my opinion makes the matchup 6-4 in Rog’s favor because Rog doesn’t really need to use much meter vs Honda and being able to limit one of Honda’s safe chip options is very crucial in tight games. There are probably more attacks that rog can now punish with super activated with kick but those are two big ones.

UPDATE You can punish blocked Honda jab headbutt with ultra if you do Reversal Ultra +1 frame faster trick. The 1 frame faster trick for the ULTRA is when you activate ultra, instead of holding kicks to start with uppers, you drum the kicks (basically mash on all the kicks) as it is leaving the ultra freeze and the first uppercut of the ultra will hit honda once then just release kicks so that the rest of the straights do all the hits. If you use uppers the whole way, they will each only hit once because honda gets pushed out too far. Thanks to Liston for this find.

** You can also punish blocked EX headbutt with ultra but you MUST STAND BLOCK and it’s NOT 100%. You can test this by recording honda to do EX headbutt then blocking in training mode. You will notice that he gets pushed back much further if you crouch block but not so much if you stand block. For some reason, the amount of pushback varies even when u stand block, sometimes honda recovers close enough for you to punish, sometimes, he’s out of range, even if both times you stand blocked AND did reversal ultra. For this particular punish, you do not need to mash on kicks to make it 1 frame faster, you can just hold Kicks, but I would advise you do anyway just to increase your chances.

*** Video demonstrating how to make your ultra 1 frame faster. Thanks to MagnetoManiac for recording this for me.
[media=youtube]JbnE1PTH8Jw[/media]

Trick 6: Force Stand Combo on characters that you cant combo into HB after OH.

Normally on Sagat and some other characters, after hitting with an overhead (Dash Swing Blow), the most you can get is st. RH or cr. RH. Instead of doing that, after overhead you can do cr. strong into Fierce Dash Straight (forces stand) FADC, cr. jab jab, short, fierce Headbutt. Fierce Dash Straight has enough hitstun to allow cr. Jab to combo after the FADC. It is a 1 frame link but it can get you the win in tight situations.

Trick 7: Cancelling St. Forward into Super safely and after max range j. Fierce.

St. forward is a very good underused poke because it has good range and a big hitbox. It also does the same damage as Rog’s Cr. RH and is only 1 frame slower and slightly less range. It is very good to for stuffing shoto’s that like to spam cr. Forward AND it can be focus canceled or canceled into super. A nice safe trick I do vs Shotos and Rufus players that abuse df+forward (the rolling attack) is after a block string, walk back and press st.Forward buffered with Super. Since I walked back, the st. forward whiffs if they dont press anything and super will not come out. However, if the shoto tries to cr. Forward or cr. RH , rog’s st. forward will beat it clean and it will cancel into super for a big punish. The same applies to rufus doing his rolling attack.

Also normally when Rog lands a max range Jump-in fierce the most he can get is a sweep with cr. RH but I learned that if you Jump-in and store your back charge early, after hitting the max range jump-in fierce, st. forward still reaches and then can be canceled into super.

  • Far st. strong beats sagat’s max range st. RH --CLEAN-- and can be canceled into super. Use the same way as st.forward described above.
  • thanks to Moose for that find.

Trick 8: How to auto-correct Balrog’s ultra/super to punish cross-up tatsus and EX psycho crushers.

-This one is very simple but VERY useful. Normally Balrog’s ultra motion is charge B, then press f,b,f+PPP (or KKK). Well if you add B to the end of the motion then press PPP or KKK, the Ultra will auto-correct on the side switch. Useful applications for this trick:
– When you know a shoto is going to cross-up tatsu, you can wait to see the hurricane kick come then auto-correct ultra and you will punish the shoto will a full ultra because they will still be in recovery from the air hurricane kick.
–When you knock down Bison and you know he wants to EX psycho crusher out you can keep your back charge then do the ultra motion and add Back to it as he is crossing through your body. The ultra will activate then just dont press anything (let the straights come out, if you hold kicks it will sometimes juggle for less damage) the full grounded ultra will punish. A good setup for this is after hitting Bison with cr. RH, whiff a cr. Jab for timing, then hold up/forward during the jab for instant jump and jump-in with early RH. That is rog’s safe jump on Bison because none of bison’s reversals are fast enough to punish the jump RH and if he just stays there he has to block or backdash/teleport which you can sweep (to punish teleport you have to walk up slightly). Or you can do a variation of that trick by sweeping, THEN immediately holding up-forward during the sweep then whiffing a jab when u land to bait out the EX psycho crusher.

Trick 9: If you crouch block ryu that walks up to you and does cr. forward >> EX tatsu. The EX tatsu will only hit twice and you can punish with reversal ultra (holding kicks) or super.
*This trick may also work on akuma but I have not tested it.
*Thanks to Eduardo-Perez “vVv-Scrub” for learning this.

Trick 10: I had to save the best for last because this trick is mind blowing. I call it the “BACK TO THE CORNER BITCH!”

-If Ryu is in the corner and does Jump tatsu over you to get away full screen, you can still auto-correct dash ultra him, and punish with full grounded ultra when he lands. It literally takes him back to the other corner of the stage. Here’s how to do it. When you are holding a direction forward,downforward or back/downback then charge focus, you do not need to double tap the direction you were holding to make it dash out of the focus. For example, if you are holding back, then charge focus, then immediately go to F,B or Neutral,B , a backdash will come out. So if you are holding back, then charge focus, then immediately do F,B,F+PPP or KKK , you will get a BACKDASH >> ultra. This works for all characters with BFBF charge supers. Now after thinking about the way this game handles auto correction of special moves, dashes, and supers/ultras I figured out how to DASH ultra as soon as ryu goes over your head with the jump tatsu. When you have ryu in the corner, you should always have a down-back charge stored just in case, if he does jump tatsu, wait for him to get over your head, THEN charge focus, the focus should be facing the direction in which ryu is headed, then immediately when you charge focus (since you were holding back on the original side the back becomes F, on the focus charge), press B,F (dash will come out) then one more B,F + PPP or KKK and the ultra will come out. An easy way to think of it is when you have back charge and ryu is in the corner, wait until he Jump tatsus over your head then charge focus, wiggle stick left and right then press PPP or KKK at the end of the dash and ultra will come out. It looks really cool once you pull it off and I wish I had a camera so I can record it but I don’t so I would really appreciate it if someone could and bring this trick to light.

It’s all about sharing knowledge especially for the rog army :slight_smile:

Shoutouts to the rogs out there DS, Ben Fong, Moose, Keno, Bryant the Tyrant Crackfiend, Antwan Ortiz, Justin Wong, JayWang, Eduardo Perez, Gootecks, Ronstoppable and any other solid rog mains :slight_smile:


#2

most of the stuff ppl allready know.

but nice list.

number one sounds interesting close fierce to jab is that a hard link ?

P.S you can also punish ex headbutt with ultra if you hold kicks. But you have to block it standing
gief’s ex glove can also be reversaled by holding kicks and it will catch him even if fadc back.


#3

I never seen anyone ever do Trick #10 :smiley:

Someone please record it for me. It’s awesome


#4

I have thought about doing it. Lol i’m a bit ashamed but i cant pull off the friggen dash ultra/super . I can do almost anything with rog but havent masterd that yet.

one application i was also thinking about is vs akuma

imagine

throw knockdown
jab rush ( hold back )

then waiting for akuma to teleport back and catching him with dash ultra.


#5

I’ve done it a few times, didn’t looks too hard.
That “back into the corner bitch” sounds dope, will have to hit training mode and learn that one.

Thanks man


#6

FADCing raw Overhead Smash into bnb -> Ultra is better than that complicated string you have in Trick 6, by the way. You have an utter assload of frames at your discretion and can string together beefier combos like cr.MK -> cr.LP -> cr.LK xx Headbutt, or cr.MK -> cr.LK xx Headbutt midscreen if you actually know how to maximize charge.
It’s a trick I’ve been using since around April and still proves to be quite effective.

Far standing MK isn’t that great a tool for spacing. It trades more than cr.HK, has less range and doesn’t set up any bigger damage opportunities. But I suppose as far as just showing off that super cancel trick, it’s effective.

Everything outside of #10 is pretty old but still very useful, thanks for compiling the list for Balrog players on the come-up.

Also, surprised that there’s no EX Armor Ultra info, nobody look into it enough yet or are they just not on that level?
I have some info for guaranteed Armor Ultras I can contribute if necessary.
Pretty “top secret” stuff, imo.


#7

[media=youtube]-y-VkzpF928"[/media]

2:25 you can use it as a wiff punisher too. But a simple dash straight super canceled into super would have worked too I guess

share your top secret stuff man. I’ve already seen some nice option selects


#8

Oh I know you can, I just meant that there are just better punishes and footsies tools out there. And as far as the secret stuff, it’s just seeing what exactly people should be trying to Armor Ultra. None of this is imposed as being a necessity in high-level play; simply listing any remotely useful moves that a character may use either as a meaty on wakeup, or just in general, and seeing if they are punishable. Also, unless explicitly stated, the specials listed apply to all versions.

Guaranteed Armor Cancel Ultra:
Abel: cr.LK, cs.HK, Change of Direction (second hit, high or low), f+MK (with or without dash)

Akuma: j.HP, cr.MK xx Hadouken, fs.HK (either hit), deep Demon Flip Kick, Demon Flip Sweep

Balrog: cr.LP, cr.MK, j.HP/HK, Dash Straight, Dash Upper, Dash Low Straight, cr.HK

Blanka: j.HP/HK, cr.HK, Electricity

C.Viper: j.HK, Burning Kick, cr.MK/MP xx Thunder Knuckle, f+MP Overhead

Cammy: j.HP/HK Spiral Arrow, deep Cannon Strike, Hooligan Combination sweep

Chun-Li: cr.LK, cr.MK, Hazanshu, j.HK, j.HP Target Combo (either hit)

Dan: cr.MK xx Gadouken (haven’t tested him much)

Dhalsim: st.HP, cr.HP, df+MK/HK Slide, Yoga Fire -> st.HP

E.Honda: Sumo Splash, nj.HP, cr.MK xx Sumo Headbutt

El Fuerte: j.HP, cr.HK Slide, Tostada Press

Fei Long: j.HP, f+MK Overhead, cr.HP

Gen: j.HP/HK (Crane), f+HP (Crane, either hit)

Gouken: j.HP/j.HK, cr.MP xx Dash Palm

Guile: cr.HK (either hit), f+MP Overhead

Ken: j.HP, f+HK Overhead, f+MK Step Kick, cr.MK xx Hadouken

M. Bison: cr.LK, cr.MK, deep j.HP, cr.LK/MK xx Scissors, Devil Reverse

Rose: df+MK Slide, cr.MP xx Soul Spiral

Rufus: j.HP, df+MK, deep Dive Kick

Ryu: j.HP, cr.MK xx Hadouken, f+MP, f+HP (either hit)

Sagat: cr.LK, j.MP, nj.MK, f+HP Overhead, cr.MK xx Tiger Shot

Sakura: nj.HK, f+MK Overhead

Seth: cr.MK xx Sonic Boom, Wall Dive j.HK, st.HP

Vega: cr.HK, Cosmic Heel(df+HK), cr.LP/MP xx LP Rolling Crystal Flash

Zangief: j.d+HP Splash, j.HP/HK, j.MK

All I’ve got so far.
Hopefully Javits doesn’t feel that I’m thread jacking.
It just seems like my info doesn’t warrant it’s own thread with this thread already present, and it seems as though it may also be of some use.


#9

Just pointing out:

You can punish Honda’s ex headbutt with ultra if you block it high and do an uppercut for the first punch.


#10

Ghostal: Add Chun’s j.roundhouse to the list of Armor Cancel Ultra punishes. It anti air’s fairly well. Also, I’ve done it against her meaty c.short. But you can test that one out as well just to make sure.

I think the most important one on that list Javits posted is the runaway tatsu punish. Ryu players like escaping out of the corner with it and Rog never has a clear way of catching up to Ryu for the punish.


#11

Maybe not exactly how you would do it - @5:14 and 6:42

[media=youtube]qb2qcjYP5yQ&feature=player_embedded[/media]


#12

That’s just doing “Trick 8”.
“Trick 10” involves getting a DASH>>ULTRA after the side switch. When I said “I’ve never seen anyone do this” I didn’t mean that I have never done it. I can do it free on training mode. I just have no means of recording it because I dont have a camera or a capture card so I was asking someone who does to please record it and upload it to YouTube so that everyone can know about this trick. The easiest way to practice this is to record Ryu doing a Jump hurricane kick then crouch blocking in training mode, then set Ryu to “playback” then let him jump tatsu himself into the corner, then while he’s in the corner set yourself up with the back charge in front of him. then when he jump tatsus over your head again, THEN charge focus, the focus should be facing the direction in which ryu is headed, then immediately when you charge focus (since you were holding back on the original side the back becomes F, on the focus charge), press B,F (dash will come out) then one more B,F + PPP or KKK and the ultra will come out.


#13

Ok, so what is the point of trick 10 if it basically does the same thing as trick 8? Is it a style thing?


#14

You the man, Javitz. :smiley:
Thanks for the shoutout.
Here’s something from DS:
Ex Kara Cancel into Ultra @ 4:50:
[media=youtube]z4iTC9-yAKw#t=4m50s[/media]
Fucking INSANE.


#15

The point of trick 10 is that it has the dash in it to close the distance in order to get all the hits of the ultra. In the example you gave with the video, the first time, the last uppercut of the ultra missed, in the second instance the first rush punch of the ultra misses which means less damage. With trick #10, you ensure maximum damage and guaranteed corner. So even though it IS stylish :slight_smile: it’s NOT just for style.

Sighs this is why I want someone to record this so that you see what I mean.


#16

How much harder is the execution on trick 10 vs trick 8? Is it worth doing over trick 8?


#17

I usually use the lower part of my fingers to keep the 3 kicks pressed when i’m keeping a shoto in the corner…this way I can use punches for c.fierce or headbutt and if they do the air tatsu i just walk back a step and release the kicks for TAP. It’ll catch them landing as a CH and do mad damage.

That “back to the corner bitch” trick is really cool but it’s also mad hard. I don’t see myself being able to use it anytime soon in a real match. I’m having a real hard time doing it in training mode


#18

I tried in training mode and it’s MUCH harder. As I already said, if you got perfect execution it’s 100 more damage so definitely go for it. If your execution is only “good” stick with trick 8 for a guaranteed punish


#19

@Jav1ts:

Regarding trick #1, does it work only on Ryu and Akuma? Or are there others that haven’t been tested yet?

Also, can trick #8 be used against Viper’s ex thunder knuckle?


#20

Yo Javits, wanted to say that there’s some sweet tricks here, despite people mentioning that some of this stuff was old, for players like me this is an enormous help, I never see any of this stuff posted on the stickied threads (by the way, I’m that rog player at CTF you taught the dash ultra to about a month ago), so just saying that this thread was a good call. Can trick 8 be used against any special move cross-up, and does the forced stand cs. HP work on anyone else? And r you gonna hit up Capcom Fight Club on the 22nd (http://www.capcom-unity.com/s-kill/blog/2009/10/09/capcom_fight_club__were_back), word is it’s gonna be “super”?

And Ghostal, thanks for compiling an actually organized list of kara-ultra applications, I’m still struggling to apply this consistently in a real match. So by “guaranteed”, you mean that the recovery of those moves is slow enough that it’s 100% safe to attempt the option select in these cases? Can anyone make a list of Rog’s guaranteed punishes (e.g. ultra on block holding kicks against EX sumoHB) on blocked moves? If anyone would even be mildly interested in having this, I’d make the thread and start work on it…no one seems to want it but me as far as I know.