Jumping


#1

I play mostly 3D fighters and am still new at the 2D ones. Anyway, I’m still trying to get used to the diffferent axis. Can someone explain the basics of how jumping applies to gameplay? Is it very risky or is it the preferred way of maneuvering around the stage?


#2

what game are you playing


#3

you jump in to do combos!


#4

You should mention which game you’re talking about.

SF games are more ground based and usually doing random jumps is a very bad idea, as you can get punished hard for it.
KOF games have low jumps which are harder to react to than regular jumps and are a essential part of the game (putting pressure, mixing up with low attacks, etc).

Again, moving around depends on the game. Some games have dash, others have run, others have roll, etc. Besides those options, you should also look for character specific moves that make them move forward (Bison’s c.HK, Ryu/Ken’s Hurricane Kick, Sagat’s Tiger Knee, etc).
A lot of times walking is still the best way to move around and control space.


#5

It’s not an essential part of the game…jumps are just better in that game than in other games. With sufficient reaction ability, jump spammers in kof will get anti-aired over and over. You can beat a hop spammer by just doing vertical jumps for anti-air, and run up antii-air normals.


#6

Well, I play mainly the SF games, but I was wondering if there were any fundamental principles that apply to all 2D fighters, including the versus games.

Is the jump any good as an evasive maneuver like the side step is in 3D games? Most jumps seem capable of going over the majority of a character’s ground moves, over anything that isn’t an anti-air. I would assume that a jump could be used to evade a move, leaving the opponent in recovery. Also, is jumping still risky in games that have air blocking? Do anti-airs have actual “priority” over aerial moves or something?

I’m also accustomed to the high/mid/low aspect of 3D games. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but in 2D games a crouching block will defend against almost any ground move? The only thing that it can’t defend against are throws and moves executed overhead from the air?


#7

In specific situations in specific games, yes. But as a whole it really doesn’t work like this. It’s not a case of avoiding ground move because generally they will still have time to hit you out of the air. Example: in ST, Ryu vs Ryu. You are standing just inside Ryu’s low forward range. Your opponent does low medium kick cancelled into a fireball and you jump as he low medium kicks. Since his move whiffs, the fireball doesn’t happen, and he still has time to dragon punch you out of the air. The most common situation where jumping in will actually get you a free hit, is if you jump over a fireball at a certain range. Common situations where it is safe/advantageous/worth the risk in some way:

  • going for a cross-up (jumping over the opponent and using a normal that hits them behind the head)

  • going for a ‘safe jump’ (check the tutorial link for details)

  • jumping over a fireball (in situations where this will actually net you guaranteed damage, it will usually be a guess)

There are many moves in 2D fighters that are done on the ground but need to be blocked standing. They are referred to as ‘overheads’. Generally the newer the game, the more likely there will be fast and/or damaging overheads.

Here are some tutorials David Sirlin made for CCC2. They were made for ST, but most of the things apply to all 2D fighters.

Beginner 1: [media=youtube]d0cFs5mHQC4[/media]

Beginner 2: [media=youtube]OoILSEQL9jE[/media]

Intermediate: [media=youtube]jCapuhsOMcg[/media]

Advanced: [media=youtube]t8dD3K2_Pz4[/media]


#8

In most fighting games, anti-airs overprioritize most jump attacks. Keep in mind that while jumpins can evade most moves, good opponents will try to force you to jump over their low recovery moves (such as low recovery fireballs) so that they can punish you as you are coming down. Thus, jumping is not always the best option for evasion, even if you know you will be able to jump over their attack.

They don’t have to be executed from the air to be an overhead. Overhead moves can look very similar to normal ground moves in fact (for example, an overhead axe kick, like Kim’s f+B).


#9

hey… this thread could be pretty good. i’ve had good experience w Tekken players who move into SF… most of them have strong ground game and great reflexes off the bat. i remember playing Kazuya in T5 for two weeks and going back to 3S Ryu… my reflexes and spacing had improved despite the time off from 3S.

as a general rule, jumping is risky. fast jumps are less risky, and fast jumps with a high arc are even better. e.g.
Bison (communist): slow jump with huge arc
Balrog (boxer): fast jump with low arc
Vega (claw): fast jump with high arc

not surprisingly, Vega can get away with jumping a lot.

jumping straight up is a pretty strong defensive maneuver iirc, partially since projectiles remain onscreen for longer (compared to if you jumped forward) (since most characters can only have one projectile onscreen at a time). this especially helps characters with great range on jumping attacks (e.g. Urien’s roundhouse).


#10

Sometimes jumping is good, especially on Hyper Fighting with Blanka or Vega XD


#11

Empty Jump into throw FTW!


#12

yeah always works the first time on an opponent.
But like some master dojo san said " don’t ever do the same technique twice" =)


#13

In general just remember you are commiting yourself to an action and a position for a long period of time, so jumping may or may not be beneficial.


#14

Lol, well, I mainly use Claw and Blanka actually. So, I’m probably starting off with a distorted view of what the average jump is like.

Do these principles apply to the versus games and gg, games where the screen seems to stretch forever vertically?

O, and thanks for the links.


#15

Try sagat best Muay Thai shoto jumper


#16

I would think that jumping is limited to the char your playing as.

for example yun in 3s- his jump is useful to him cause its one of his main ways to get in range of someone. what you do after the jump is up to you, and the way you jump in is diffrent depending on what you want to accomplish. you could jump and dive in to try and start offensive pressure or you could empty jump for the throw.

on the other hand hugo in 3s- big target in the air to hit. jumps are not to his liking. solid hugo players master his ground game before taking to the air. hes just too scary when you know that the person plaing him can pull a standing 360 on you at any moment. best to move him forward with a mp then a jump in my view but thats just me.

Every game is diffrent and so are the characters in it. so its all up to you and the person you pick to decide to jump. more of a tactic for the character then just jumping in general.


#17

Jumping really changes depending on what you’re playing, and who you’re playing. In general, here’s how I look at jumping in a few games:

Any version of SF2: Jumping Forward = Bad, in a LOT of cases. You want to jump forward only when you’re sure that you won’t be hit - almost every character in the game has an answer to everyone’s jump in (there are exceptions, but even then, you don’t want to be jumping in all day). When using jumping as an evasive manuver for projectiles, jump straight up, or jump forward when you’re too far away from your opponent for them to do anything about it (not too often).

Street Fighter 3: Jumping in is fairly dangerous, but jumping in definitely has reward for its risk, due to parrying. If your opponent is predictable (i.e. never changes what they do for anti-air, never changes their timing, etc.), you can jump in, parry their attack, and then throw out your attack, or land and do a combo, etc. The next level of mindgames comes when your defending opponent has to decide whether you’re just going to try and parry their anti-air or not, and can lead to some interesting stuff. Jumping in should still be used sparingly, but it’s not as dangerous, and has its own built-in mindgames.

Guilty Gear XX Slash: With air blocking and green blocking, there are a lot of times when jumping in can be pretty safe. There are attacks which can’t be air blocked, although everything can be green blocked. As a general rule, you can consider yourself only completely vulnerable when attacking in the air, or dashing. Also, in Guilty Gear, the trick of instant air-dashing (Quickly tap Up-Forward, Forward on the stick, causing an air dash right after leaving the ground) can be used in creating a more intense offensive game.

I think that about covers it…I’m still sort of an intermediate at Guilty Gear, so I bet someone can cover that a bit more in-depth than I can. Either way, jumping has different implications in every game…some games, like Street Fighter Alpha 3 or Capcom Vs SNK 2, might cause you to think of how you implement or combat jumping by a match-to-match basis, since some fighting styles can air-block and some can’t, some can parry and others can’t, etc.

For the most part, the idea of jumping in as an offensive tool is always the same: If you can anticipate something specific from your opponent (like, if you know they’re gonna throw a fireball), you can use jumping to evade their attacks while mounting an offense of your own. Its effectiveness and danger implications change from game to game.


#18

O, ok. Well, I had heard before that jumps were very risky, but then I watched a few vids from different games and I noticed that there were a few jumps each round. To me, “very risky” means do it maybe once a match, if at all.


#19

Well, depending on the game and the level of play, it really IS that risky. Check out this match video for example:

[media=youtube]qL1nqpbSjK0[/media]

You’ll notice how very, VERY sparingly jumping forward is used in this match.

  • In round one, there is only one instance of either player jumping forward: Ryu, in the middle of the match. This is effective in this case, because Chun-Li lacks a single, all-purpose anti-air (like say, a Shoryuken), and none of Chun’s anti-airs would have been very effective against Ryu in that situation. Since Ryu knocked her down previously, it’s sort of a free jump in for Ryu.

The way Chun-Li loses the first round, though not technically a jump-in, is somewhat of a good example of why jump-ins can be so dangerous: in having her jump attack countered, she gets hit by J.Mp x2, Super, which could have killed her even if she had more life left than she did.

  • In round two, same thing: Only one jump-in, and it’s a Ryu jump-in with the exact same circumstances.

  • In round three, you see jump-in used as a risk/reward tactic: Chun-Li anticipates (correctly) that Ryu is going to throw a fireball, and jumps over it with a dizzy combo. Just as simple as it is to stop jump-ins, it’s just as simple to wreck a lot of shit with them.

For the rest of the round, the fighting is done in the corner. Notice that Ryu doesn’t escape the corner with a jump, but rather by throwing Chun into the corner. For that matter, Chun-Li almost never tries to jump out of the corner, either - her only attempt was stopped cold in its tracks.


I had hoped to make this longer, but I couldn’t find any good 3S videos that demonstrated what I wanted to show that didn’t come from a SBO vid or Evolution DVD, neither of which I assume would be good to link to from here. I didn’t do one for Guilty Gear, cos I don’t consider myself too well-versed in how Guilty Gear works.