Juri balance/buff ideas

juri

#1

Hey guys!

As of now, Juri is widely regarded as the weakest DLC character for this season. Some even consider her as one of the worst character in the game, period. With that said, I am perfectly aware that it is way too early to make an official statement on the subject. So I will only give some ideas based on my experience with her, but I’ll try not to change her gameplan too much, or make her tools completely OP. I will, however, try to explain my reasoning as much as possible behind each idea. Feel free to express yours as well; I’ll edit this post if something is too strong or needs some kind of tweak.

(TL;DR Juri sucks and needs some vitamins)

Without further ado, let’s start with her NORMALS:

St. MP:
[list]
[*] +5 on hit (up from +4).
[/list]
Here the goal is to allow Juri to combo into cr. MP, thus increasing her damage output.

Cr. MP
[list]
[*] +1 on block (up from 0)?
[/list]
This could very well be excessive. I don’t really think she “needs” this buff, but I shooting the idea.

Cr. HP:
[list]
[] 9 frames start-up (down from 10 frames).
[
] -6 on block (down from -5).
[*] Slightly adjust hurtbox to avoid trades.
[/list]

I hesitated on this one before changing the start-up frames. As this move causes CC, it does deserve to be riskier than say, st. HP. Hence, I decided to make it a little unsafer on block. However, I think the hurtbox change is necessary.

Cr. MK:
[list]
[] Slightly longer hitbox.
[
] -4 on block (down from -3).
[/list]

I don’t think this move reaaally needs a buff that much. I still tried to make it a little more like Karin’s cr. forward. Spacing will also be more important with the move now -4 on block. Besides, I feel like kicks fit Juri’s overall style better than punches.

B. HK:

I actually don’t think this move needs any change at all. In fact, I think it is quite great and underrated. Because of the change on her st. MP, her st. LK now seems fairly useless at first glance. However, it would still connect after B. HK (if anyone did not know already).

V-SYSTEM:

V-Skill:
[list]
[] 1 hit of armor and grey life (similar to SF4 focus attack).
AND/OR
[
] Can be jump cancelled.
[] 90 dmg (up from 80).
[
] -12 on block (down from -10).
[/list]
Again, I wasn’t sure with some of these changes, as I was afraid the armored hit would break the move. Jump cancel could be a more balanced alternative. Slight damage buff to justify to use this move at all (despite v-gauge gain), and slightly less safe to compensate (not that it was safe to begin with).

V-Skill (hold):
[list]
[] 110 dmg (up from 100).
[
] -20 on block (down from -18).
[/list]
Same reasoning as before, though 110 dmg could be excessive.

V-Trigger:
Not too sure what to change here. Maybe combo out of overhead. Or maybe reduce the draining of v-gauge when cancelling normals or using qcf+k. The thing is, FSE was VERY strong in the right hands in SF4, and the nerf might be justified. Besides, a weaker FSE is canon story-wise.

SPECIALS:

Fuharenkyaku store:
[list]
[] -1 on block (up from -2).
[
] Connects more easily in blockstrings.
[/list]
Could be uncalled for,the idea was to make storage akin to its SF4 counterpart.

Fuharenkyaku LK:
3 options to consider here (initially -2 on block and +2 on hit)
[list]
[] +2 on block, +2 on hit.
[
] -2 on block, +4 on hit (connects with st. LK)
[*] +2 on block, +4 on hit (closest to SF4 fuhajin release)
[/list]
The last option could absolutely be considered too strong, but hey one can dream. To goal here is to either increase pressure or combo capability.

Fuharenkyaku HK:
[list]
[*] 100 dmg (up from 90).
[/list]
Quite possibly not required considering the damage buffs mentioned above.

Fuharenkyaku EX:
[list]
[*] -4 on block (down from -2).
[/list]
With the other damage/pressure/combo options, EX qcf+k should not be as safe as it was, and thus not as “spammable.” In other words, this would give Juri player this option: spend meter to save a qcf+k charge, or slightly better damage that require a bit more commitment.

Medium DP:
[list]
[] 5 frames start-up (down from 6 frames).
[
] Fully invincible on frames 3-7 (used to be upper body and throw invincible on frames 1-5).
[/list]
Lowering start-up makes it more on par with Ken’s medium shoryu. Invincibility starting on frame 3 means it can still be stuffed by meaty attacks.

EX DP:
[list]
[] 4 frames start-up (down from 7 frames).
[
] -35 on block (down from -31)
[/list]
Here you had an EX DP with terrible start-up frames, thus making it much less suited as anti-air or reversal option than… well any other EX DP in the game really. Complete invincibility on frames 1-8 is kept untouched, but the move lost a few frame advantage on block to compensate).

Well, that’s pretty much it folks. Tell me what you think.


Fixing SFV Juri [What's your thoughts?]
#2

Her V Skill and c.HP could stand to be better so I agree with those there. The other stuff I don’t think Capcom will budge on at all. None of the Season 2 characters have medium to medium links except Rog, but I think it’s rather situational when he can use it.

You haven’t seen Urien’s EX DP/headbutt if you’re talking worst DP in the game. 12 frame start up and doesn’t have anything near the upper area hit box. You can light meaty it on wake up and still block. And he has to charge it too meaning in tight situations you won’t even have the charge to utilize how shitty it is. The only thing it has going for it is nice forward range if people are pressing you too much from a range.

The only thing really bad about it being slow is that it gets safe jumped on easily, but there aren’t many situations where you can reliably safe jump in this game any way.

MK pinwheel is supposed to be a meterless version of Nash’s EX scythe. It’s meant to anti air and only for anti air. This allows her to have a meterless invincible anti air option while still having an EX DP which isn’t common for a lot of the cast and gives her a strong AA game. Nash has a lot of ok AA options, but if he wants something that will flat out win in a sticky situation he has to burn meter. Long as you’re in a decent spot MK pinwheel will always AA which is really strong. There isn’t much any character without a meterless DP that has as strong of an AA game as Juri.

As time goes on people won’t jump at her much because she has too many solid options. This includes her super which is just a huge “don’t jump” zone.


#3

@Raphsody

Im not sure if you are calling for buffs or nerfs but imo your suggestion overall doesn’t help her but make her more unsafe. But some of your ideas are not bad specially the V-Skill being jump cancelable and with 1 hit of armor.


#4

@DevilJin 01

I agree to some extent on her m DP. Maybe I exaggerated a bit by calling it the worst :stuck_out_tongue: though I’m not sure I’d call chariot tackle a “DP” per se haha. However, I still stand by the frame data changes. I also don’t think any meterless dp should have full invincibility from frame 1.


#5

@Garu

I think my title is misleading. Let’s call them balance changes. Don’t forget that not ALL of these should be implemented in the game. It could be one, or two, or ten changes. Since a all characters should still have some weaknesses (which even Chun Li does), it would not make sense to make all of her tools flawless.

For example, if v-skill gets an overall buff, it should probably get some kind of drawback to make sure it’s not too strong. A tool with higher reward, generally speaking, should also imply higher risk. I did make her a lot safer on her fireball storage and release though. Again, this calls for other areas where she would not be as safe.


#6

10-15% damage increase on all her specials. That’s pretty much all I want. She has to work so hard to get any major damage while still having sub-par health so it makes no sense for her having such awful damage output, especially without stores and meter.


#7

@Maryokutai
Yeah, either that or open up combo possibilities from some normals or lk fireball. At the same time, Rashid has a rather low damage output but amazing pressure to compensate. Better pressure options would justify Juri’s as well.


#8

Revert back to sf4 playstyle and adjust damage and speed for sf5…just saying.


#9

These are just a few suggestions I came up with:

  1. Fuharenkyaku M: Hits Overhead
  • One of Juri’s main issues (I feel) is the fact that you have to store these specials before using them, but the specials don’t offer much.
  • In Sf4, the reason you had to store her fireballs was because they had so much utility (Zoing Tool, Frame Trap, Combo Tool, etc)
  • The move is still unsafe on block and can be easily interrupted, so the move wouldn’t be spammable or broken if it could hit overhead
  1. Standing HK: Lower Body Invinciblity, Now does the twisting animation when it Crush Counters
  • Justifies the long start-up on the move and gives another tool for playing the neutral, but has the twisting animation so Juri can’t get too much off a Crush Counter hit
  • inspiration comes from Ibuki’s Forward HK
  • Also gives Juri a reset option off of a Crush Counter hit
    That’s really it since any other ideas I might have had were already covered by Rhapsody. In general, I feel like a lot of changes were made to Juri to separate her from her SF4 version, but not much thought went into how to complement these changes. Here’s hoping Juri receives some buffs in the near future.

#10

Everyone forgot the most important she needs better throw advantage


#11

Maybe more range vega walks out for free


#12
  • Stun output boost.

  • lk pinwheel to be -3 crouching and standing. -8 is too much. Would give her some forward moving momentum too.

  • target combo to hit crouchers.

  • CC hk to give more frame advantage. It’s far too tight. Lower body invincible too.

  • cr.Hp needs help especially outside of V-Trigger. Hitbox and hirtbox adjustments at least.

  • V-Skill, charge faint needs selectable directions and/or possibly one hit of armour. Something to make it worthehile.

  • Stores, much larger hitbox (more likely to antiair, combo extensions) and a damage buff.

  • Ryos- need to hit overhead. They suck as it is, give us a reason to use em.

-Mk store as an overhead would be nice, would be similar to Guys neckbreaker in a way.


#13

agree with everything.
ev-ry-thang!!! especially the last two


#14

I’m not too sure about making all versions of Ryodansatsu an Overhead. However, I do feel that L,M, and H Ryodansatsu could use some form of projectile invincibility, ether on start-up or after start-up. I also feel that Ex Ryodansatsu could be made a tad bit faster so at least she can combo into it from standing HP.


#15

Yeah you are asking too much. Alot of what you are saying is unreasonable.

mk. release being a overhead sounds fine. because it should be powerful being a charge move, but just remember its the only release that can be reliably combo’d afterwards. So its already powerful. It also need to punish low attacks and be classed as airborne to be throw invincible.

Ryos being overheads sounds way too overpowered, they already are combo finishers and the anti fireball move.

V-skill having armor would only be good it taking white damage lead to building v-trigger. But other than that I don’t see this as a good design system. V-skills are meant to be a core move to your arsenal if you are a 3 bar character. Juris v-skill while I like it, is too telegraphed for high level play. At low level its pretty much abuse but once you move past silver it more likely the death of you.
If the v-skill cancel was faster or lead to some sort of alternative front attack then I would be much more happier.

Her stun game is fine.

The others seem fair


#16

Fair enough, the Ryo changes may be unnecessary now thinking about it and I do agree that giving V-Skill armor is too much (V-Skill is already pretty good as is). Outside of maybe giving a slight decrease in cool-down when she cancels the actual dash, I don’t think I would touch it.


#17

There’s plenty of little things that I think she could benefit from, but who knows. It can always be a bit hard to tell what would become overpowered. I can say the few things I’d like to see most and a few of those are definitely echoed in other posts here

  • Target combo doesn’t whiff on crouching opponents.
  • Faster backward walk speed. (This alone I think will help her play a better footsie game before even getting to specific hitbox/hurtbox changes.)
  • Slightly reduced recovery time on her forward throw. Enough to throw a fireball without trading with a wake up button.
  • Larger hitbox and possibly reduce hurtbox on charges.
  • Make Charges 0 on block, Or increase pushback on block. I am not sure which would be more fair. but if her charges end her pressure she should be pushed out to safety.
  • Reduce hurtbox on vskill charge a little bit.
  • Reduce horizontal hurtbox on cr.MP
  • Increase horizontal hitbox on cr.HP
  • Reduce her lower hurtbox on RH so that it hops lows reliably. Keep the range the same so she is still vulnerable to standing pokes.
  • Slightly more frame advantage on her crush counter’s so she has a little more time to combo reliably.
  • Make her flip kick have a hitbox in the air and not be a ground pound.
  • maker her overhead a crush counter. (This one is likely wishful thinking. But Necali has one, so fuck it!)

#18

V-skill cancel needs something. I just thought of armour because I can imagine using it like Guys ex run stop, a parry of sorts.

The overheads are wishful thinking but I do think she could do with the teeniest of extra stun.

I’m in a god awful habit of using lk pinwheel as a blockstring ender as it moves me forward and when spaced a bit is kinda (usually) safe. Unless they crouching. I need to stop that actually.


#19

You should be able to feint a charged vskill early. So you would be able to do a charged vskill through projectile and feint, then still get the punish with say a st.mp.
Other stuff like like CC cr.hp xx vskill xx feint, cr.hp et


#20

To be honest Juri has way too many problems to be adressed in the first balance patch, imo she wont be consider relevant till maybe the 3rd or 4th balance patch so sad but it is what it is.