Juri balance/buff ideas

juri

#141

How is everyone feeling about her in general?

She definitely feels more viable than she was (and I thought she was a bit weak but still viable in S1), but she doesn’t feel strong to me in the way that some others do. She mostly just feels really honest.

I also think that maybe my S1 issue with Juri was just her playstyle in general. I was working on switching to Necalli, and I came back to Juri for S2. But after some time with her, I still don’t see a reason not to make the switch. Something about her is maybe just not what I am looking for?


#142

She’s viable, but if you want to be competitive you’re just handicapping yourself and should probably pick Cammy instead. They can do the same things but one isn’t restricted by stores and has much better neutral.

Cammy isn’t fun though.


#143

I am not necessarily worried about competitive, but I have a fairly young kid and relatively few playing hours (made fewer with Steam’s Xrd-R launch), and I think what I am realizing is that Juri takes work to perform at the level of other characters. I was honestly surprised at how quickly I started doing well with Necalli compared to how long it is taking me to do well with Juri.

Also, unrelated (and probably the wrong thread), but has Juri’s (ch)5mp always caused 5lk to whiff on Birdie? Could not figure out why I was getting blown up after my meaties, and I had to lab it to figure that out. Kept thinking I was taking crazy pills and that I was dragging ass on my inputs or something.


#144

CH 5MP pushes you out of pretty much everything most of the time, you’ll never get a 5LK from it. you’ll want to do either 5MK buffered into a special, if the first hit whiffs you still get the second of 5MK at least, but if you confirm the counter hit you’ll want to do 5MP > 2MP, it does the most damage if you cancel it into MK flip kick


#145

Is that new though? (ch)5mp, 5lk has consistently been my go-to meaty. I’ll have to check other characters (especially bigger ones like Gief and Alex), but I don’t remember it ever not working. Maybe I’ll look to do that tomorrow.

I have always tried to do 5lk over 5mk/2mk>fireball/2mp because 5lk keeps our turn and the others give it up almost immediately.


#146

I’m in agreement with everything you mentioned except this, as i think there is another, better way to go about this.

[list]
[*] st.mp less pushback oH/oB
[/list]
The reason i would prefer this option is that it opens other avenues, if pushback is reduced enough. You want the st.mp, cr.mp 3f frametrap back, but instead you would be able to do st.mp(oB), (ch)st.lk, cr.mk for instance.
Another one would be st.mp(oB), cr.lp(CH), cr.mp. Perhaps even do st.mp(oB), cr.lp(CH), st.mk xx… . Less pushback on st.mp would give you the opportunity to still convert from a CH afterwards in a hitconfirm way.

This would also make st.mp(CH), b.hk actually viable.

It’s something i wanted since the first time i played Juri in SFV, and in general i think most characters need pushback reduced on atleast one medium button.

Anyway, probably won’t see any further changes, especiall such large changes described above until after the 2017 Capcom Cup.


#147

“why not both c;?”


#148

It’s Capcom. Can’t have the cake AND eat it.


#149

really important buffs she needs is a low forward similar to cammy or necalli. Also I think she needs better options without store like maybe a vacuum effect on lp pinwheel so she can have better follow up. Also in sf4 depending on which two kick buttons pressed changed which ex fireball came out giving her pressure options without having stores. I think something similar should be done for sfv ex lk fuha should be two hits and plus on block like sf4. Maybe ex mk fuha should be an overhead and ex hk fuha can be the current ex fuha. These changes I feel would improve her neutral immensely.


#150

You’re…absolutely right. Holy shit.

That’s what she’s missing, alernative EX versions of the fuha stores. An EX MK fuha and EX LK fuha would probably fill the holes that she has in her toolset.


#151

I think more that tools she needs to be more positive on block specially in her lk.tensenrin and stores. And more range or a bit of forward movement on her st.hk and s.hp. But yeah her ex versions have no purpouse other than getting more damage she needs more tools.


#152

EX Fuha is just a combination of all 3 regular Fuha animations. It is definitely meant to be that way.


#153

I never realised the animation was all three fuhas put into one, oh wow.

I’m saying giving her access to her fireball for EX meter would be good though, and an EX MK fuha too. Just adds more diverse ways of pressuring and converting.


#154

How would you do the individual input for an ex fuha? It kind of wrecks the normal sf controller mapping. How it works now is very logical.


#155

In sf4 lk and mk was ex lk fireball. mk and hk was ex mk fireball. Hk and lk was ex fireball pretty simple actually


#156

May be easier with just one ex but it’s another reason why sf4 juri functions better than sf5 juri


#157

No one is going to like my opinion here because no one likes the “nerf” word, but I don’t think Juri needs buffs at all. In my opinion, she should be the metric for balance. I like where she is at.

If you are too far above her, you need some nerfs to bring you down. If you are too far below her, you need a few buffs.


#158

I wouldn’t mind either way, most people would prefer they buff the weak characters rather than nerfing the good ones, I’m not sure what the pros and cons are though.

I guess you’d end up with a more honest game if they nerf the top tier, but a more “fun” game if they buff the weaker? People really like it when their characters has strong tools, which is why people in here really wants those sweet Juri buffs.


#159

The dynamic of nerf/buff is you draw a line and buff/nerf relative to that line. If you think [best character in the game] best represents balance, then you should buff up to his level. If you don’t, there will obviously need to be nerfs. Finding that line is the difficult part (and managing player perception that nerfs are sometimes necessary… people really fucking hate nerfs no matter how necessary they are).

The pros and cons? Yeah, if you balance too low, everything can feel weak and unenjoyable. If you balance too high, you run the risk of power creep. That’s why I think Juri is a nice middle. She is fun. She does feel solid. She’s not too far above everyone (so no major nerfs), nor is she too far below everyone (no major power creep on buffs).

I should add that while everyone likes powerful tools when they have access to them, that isn’t always the best way to balance. While it is absolutely a blast to play a dominate character, it is not fun to be on the receiving end of it. Sometimes this is independent of balance. For example, everyone who played Mika enjoyed her shenanigans. Most people who vs’d her did not. The question then is whether the match was fun enough for the person getting Mika’d to allow for the Mika player to continue Mika’ing. Capcom decided that it wasn’t.


#160

I really wish Juri could charge her vtrigger meter with her Vskill kind of like birdie can.