Hey everyone, I just picked up SSF4 and been messing around with the characters and Gen really stood out to me. I’m a novice when it comes to fighting games ( I played sf2 back on the genesis way back when but only casually) so some of the more intricacies are lost on me.
I’ve been in the training room just playing around with Gen and have been wondering what everyone else’s style approach for playing him is. I’ve mostly just been trying to establish zone of control with some pokes while throwing in some cross-ups. I haven’t exactly found my BnB combo yet, but I’ve been working a lot with KKK j.mk c.lk PPP Super Ultra1.
I find myself having the most problems with just getting the qcf motion down for the initial super, but if I can get that it’s pretty easy for me to follow with an ultra or a full gekiro.
I’m mainly just asking for some friendly pointers on how to improve my game. I’ve read some articles about footsies and other tactics, so I’m not completely lost on some of the terminology. Putting it into actual practice though is another story, so any advice you guys could give me would be immensely appreciated.
First off are you using a stick or Controller? We need to start there for that problem.
Next, practice playing vs different characters, talk to your friends and see if they will give you pointers about that characters weaknesses etc. The best thing to do is find out if you can punish them after you block something or if they whiff a move totally. Then select the inputs to counter. Links are always a good choice, especially with gen, You can link into hands for pretty decent combos. Or you can poke into his Roll. Learn to be patient when need be, especially vs zoning characters like Shotos.(ryu, ken, akuma etc). Another thing you might want to look into is this. http://shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=234579 here you will find who you can Crane Crouch MK to duck under projectiles. Do you have Focus Attacking down to absorb hits as well? If not, practice that, especially dashing forward to move in on them. Gen in Super is a lot different than in Vanilla (SFIV). He needs to play more of a mind game to bait players like Guile to do flash kicks, or Ryu’s to do Shoryukens. Practice Oga’s all types. A good bait is using the Oga and pressing back or nothing at all, that way you are away from attacks and hopefully bait the player into doing something that will allow you to move in and hit them. Be cautious of what player and what kind of player you are playing against. Example. Doing a HK Oga and pressing no direction maybe a bad idea vs someone with a ultra, depending on how fast their ultra gets off and the distance it reaches it may hit you. So play around with that. Using the LK version usually is the best for baiting.
Also watch videos with good Gen players like Yeb, Jibbo, Evil Rashaan and Ryllis (Don’t take it personally if I didn’t put your name here). You also want to look at frame data. It really helps to find out what moves are safe on block and what ones aren’t. Oga Ceiling straight down dive usually is a bad idea. Vs Zangiefs Lariat it can be helpful, but you have to make sure you time it right. If someone like Zangief blocks it, look out. So you need to practice your reaction to make him dive a different direction.
Get back to me on your Stick or Controller status.
I’m playing on a stick, the SE mad catz one. If the buttons give me problems in the future I’ll probably mod it.
Good advice with the being patient thing. I find myself jumping in too often trying to go for a cross-up. I also have some trouble with the timing on a lot of Gen’s links, but that’ll come with time. I’m not exactly sure when I should be doing a focus attack and when I should just be pressing the advantage and jumping or just blocking it. I’m pretty good with dash cancelling out of a FA, but I can’t really string any combos out of it. Probably just poor execution.
I would definitely take your suggestion about playing with friends, but I’m the only one in my circle that really plays ssf4. Everyone else is busy with their shooters.
I’ve been working on oga combos but for the most part I’ve found them really unsafe and I would get punished on them a lot. It was more useful as just a mind game as you said.
Also, I’ve been watching a LOT of replays from yeb, Jibbo and Ryllis, but they’re all from vanilla so the same tactics don’t really work as well when I try to apply them. I’m able to piano key pretty well, but that seems to be a moot point since mk hands has gotten a nerf.
Something to keep in mind, be prepared for frustration and expect some losses. Getting a hang of this character is extremely difficult, and there may be times where you feel like you are working more for less and might want to switch:shake:.
But don’t give up on the old man and I’m sure he’ll repay ya well.:woot:
Good info. I played Gen on and off in SF4 with a 360 pad. I picked up a TE Stick with SSF4 and basically have to re-learn the little I knew. Definitely a tough character to learn and I am hating his new jumps but I will stick with the geriatric patient.
Relying on kkk j.mk c.lk or oga to land your super is really gimmicky and doesn’t work well against anyone with experience of the match up or character. You can more or less cancel any mantis normal or special move into super so it’s quite straight forward and safe to hit confirm into once you get into the habit of doing so.
I believe that most people are using s.mp s.hp lk gekiro and s.mp s.mk lk gekiro as their BnBs in super.
I don’t know how you lost and who your opponents were, but I do know from my own experience it’s common for most starting Gen players to get caught up in executing moves in the wrong stance. The trials are somewhat helpful in adapting your stance to your next move (mantis s.MP to crane c.LK for example).
General pointer: practice attacking with moves from alternate stances in training mode, to learn switching without thinking about it.
I’ve been able to get all but trials 22 and 23 done. Yeah, I even managed that full H gekiro in 24.
Whenever I tried to go for a cross-up I’d just get my ass smacked out of the air, even when I thought it’d be pretty safe to jump. I think my main problem is blocking in general, I’m not certain of my ability to FA just yet. That and I guessed wrong a few times leading into some big combos that just destroyed me, especially from Chun-Li.
It’s very normal to lose online when you first pick up an advanced character such as Gen. I would suggest learning a solid BnB combo such as the ones mentioned in the other post and get familiar with changing stances in the heat of battle (and some combos).
I’ll add you to XBL. Ryllis barely used the MK Hands MK. He stays in Crane a lot. I’d recommend watching his videos. He zones and jumps very well. Take another look at his older videos.
Once again players like Chun, you need to bait things. Move in close, stand up straight, then back off at the last minute, sometimes you will get them to do a EX bird kick. Pay attention to their meter, especially if you are thinking about crossing up. Train your eyes to move around the screen really fast. Quake, Rainbowsix and Counter-strike trained me to be able to look at different places on the screen yet able to focus on players on the screen. Once again learn to bait. Doing jump ins on block then neutral jump can be an option vs non Dragon Punch style characters. Even against them can be useful when they don’t expect it. Ryllis is king at it, He jumps in with Mantis MK, Jumps straight up, uses Crane Jumping HK, then pokes into a roll.
Sometimes making them come to you works too. All depends on how well you can defend. If you can’t throw out LK Gekiro as a Anti-Air, then learn to switch and use Crane Crouch HK, It’s awesome as an AA. Like any character there is a lot to learn. Keep practicing over and over. Now you can go back into your online fights and replay your matches. Use them, Watch them, If you notice you aren’t landing something, go into options and turn on inputs. You can also watch other peoples videos online and turn on their inputs to see how they play. If you find you are getting hit by a move, let’s say Adons Jaguar Tooth (the wall dive) Go into Training, Set the Options to record, Make Adon do the move you want(Jaguar Tooth) then go back into Training Options and select play. Then play around with moves that will stuff or beat his. I had a problem with it at first, Then I learned and practiced to stuff it with a Mantis Standing Fierce Punch. Training is your friend, trust me.
If you could add me that’d be amazing. I’ve been winning a little bit here and there, but I’m not sure if it’s because I’m getting better or the people I’m playing are getting worse. It’d be good to practice with another Gen player.
Adding you now. I think you might pick up some things if you play vs a Gen player and get to see it in action. That way you can see how they advance against you or defend while you are thinking up things. Might help you get a better mind set.
The most important thing for Gen is controlling space and always being in control especially because he has little come back potential.
Understanding your normals is more important then anything else with Gen.
Know the range, speed hitbox (not so hard with the hitbox pics around now) and at least 2 applications for his normals.
Expect most of your damage to come from playing footsies so learn to play it well.
Combos aren’t hard to memorize its just practice.
Match-up knowledge comes mostly from experience, go play against characters you have trouble against and people better then you.
My current play style is just simply controlling space, i only go on the offensive when i am against characters such as Chun or Guile because Gen has no option in that situation. Even without life lead be patient and continue pressuring your opponent with your “Personal Space” that you control, quite similar to how Honda is played actually.
The reason for this is Gens offense at the moment seems very lacking.
Its good that you’re willing to read, theres a lot of good writeups.
I recommend you read Sirlins articles about playing to win, Sonic Hurricanes series on footsies and have a gander at the writeups in the domination101 subforum.
When you believe you’re stuck/plateaued read those again and/or simply take a break from the game. Who knows you could come back fresh, better and with a new approach.
Moderate and don’t burn yourself out.
Almost anything you read here is Super related. Obviously there are Vanilla strats/combos/resets that carried over. But Not much else to add really. Gen needs to be more patient with most characters and knowing your spacing is pretty much the same.
I’ve done a little reading around the boards, and was wondering where there was a good explanation of all his normals and how to use them, or if someone could do a writeup of them. I’m not really sure where to use some over others.
s.MP - has many +frames and is therfore very save to use.
s.MK - is still one of his best pokes and cancelable into hands making this a good save poke, even against focus attack
c.HP - besides gekiro, his best anti air move in this stance.
s.HP - 2 Hits. 200 Damage and Stun. the move alone is a very good punish after a focus crumble. first hit hits low 2nd high, making this a situational but surprising mixup move.
s.MP - Gen’s Overhead. has to be blocked high. 2 Hits.
c.HP - knockdown as counterhit. does 180 Damage and 300(!) Stun. Hitbox is much longer than his hurtbox, making this a good wakeup poke due to incredible long start up not very reliable in normal poking game.
c.LK - knocks opponent in the air in juggle state allowing further move like any super, or c.hk or gekiro (cornor) etc
c.MK - has projectile invincible, u can avoid many fireballs with it (exceptions: Low Tiger, Metsu, LP Boom, LP Spark, LP Slasher, Chuns and Sakuras fbs)
c.HK - gen’s best anti air. good range, but has to be used with the correct timing due to short active frames. to early and it’ll whiff, to late and it will be beaten out or trade. has UNBELIVEABLE long Recovery (-16 on Block, -12 on Hit). it’s save as anti air, but an standing opponent get’s a free punish, even on hit.
j.MK - one of the best crossup ingame. very big hitbox, but due to changed jump arc, not very save anymore, unless used very late.
j.HK~j.HK - Target Combo. Hits twice. good jump in against Focus Attac and vs air a good crane ultra / super setup.
crane c.hk is basically his normal anti-air. Aside from Gekiro (waterfall) kick.
crane c.hp is uselss (imo) because it has ridiculous startup, might be useful to do on wakeup but I personally wouldn’t.
his j.mk is one of the best crossup kicks in the game, can be used to jump over the opponent to hit on the other side and combo into (example) crane s.lp> crane c.lk > mantis c.hp. This combo is a good one to learn, also because it teaches you to switch stances in a combo.
j.hp is a great air to air.
j.hk (hits twice) and can be combo’d into his roll (need to charge when you do j.hk). If you hit them in the air with j.hk you can do crane super and ultra.
s.mp is an overhead, great for mixups.
I prefer to stay in mantis stance though for the most part unless I want to any of the things mentioned above. His mantis stance normals are better pokes and most are cancellable into numerous things which are mentioned in combo threads.
If you want more information or any other questions feel free to PM me or something, wrote this very quickly haha. ^^
Also check the Gen list/guide compilation sthread sticky. It contains good lists on info about pretty much everything.