KARIN Match Up Thread

m-bison

#1

WIP

Highlight me with @SUPARNOVAX for match up notes to include in the corresponding discussion.


M.Bison Match-Ups Index Thread
#2

Something I noticed against some Karin players last night, her blockstrings push you out beyond cr.MP range and even cr.MK range. I had some success with the extra range that s.MK gave me, but trying s.HP often got me counter poked. Could have been too slow, worth looking at.

The biggest issue with this is that even if you land s.MK, the range is reset to where you have to get in again against her walkspeed and pokes. She seems to have an ability to play footsies with Bison that some other characters don’t have.


#3

Something I picked up. If you block her windmill overhead thing start jabbing. Jab beats her slide and the throw option.


#4

⇧ Um, What does this have to do with Bison vs Karin?

Yeah, I’m doing c.LP into Blast and it works decently against this move.

Karin’s c.MK/s.MK seems to be the thing that makes this matchup frustrating for me. I tried whiff punishing her s.MK with s.MP/s.MK but you can’t convert neither of those into combos, and it’s not enough of a deterrent for her to stop using them.


#5

Ok, tired of letting Karins go unpunished with her overhead i found this nice OS in the lab:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo-Fv5wLNe8


#6

Shenanigans Karin is apparently easy to handle, you just gotta know what moves are punishable and punish with c.LP xx Blast. Her moves are usually more unsafe than they look. Also, she doesn’t handle jump ins too well unless she has meter. Crossups are good too. Psycho Axe is a good poke tool as it allows you to engage from a distance at which she doesn’t have much tools to do anything. Unless she reads the Axe and neutral jumps.


#7

I’ve only played offline. The best success I’ve had is controlling the match with footsies and dragging it out. Control the match so much your dragging out each round until there is no time left!


#8

Neutral jumps from outside your immediate range seem like a problem in general. No fast walk speed to catch them with st.mk/hk this time around.


#9

MP.Inferno set up a free safe jump against Karin, regardless of how she recovers from the knockdown.


#10

everything she does is unsafe but i cannot for the life of me punish her.


#11

So far, I’m finding Karin the lamest opponent in the game. Of all characters she’s the seems to play lame and most of her game is based around punishing whiff footsies or in Bison’s case whiffed Knee Press.


#12

If a player focuses so heavily on footsies, they’re open elsewhere. Tokido did it with more neutral jumps, but that’s Ryu, not Bison. We don’t have that, but we do have shorter charge times on stomp/reverse that can be easily hidden inside pokes. Her meterless anti airs, like Bison’s, aren’t the best. Have her focus on light scissors in the footsie game, then do heavy scissors at -2 on block. Things like that just to change the ranges up and give her different looks as she’s walking back and forth looking to press a button.

Just because someone reacts once or twice to your dashes, doesn’t mean they’ll do it every time. Give them some different looks, then mix the dash back in.


#13

I feel like she’s another one of the characters that exploits Bison’s slow walk speed. She can weave in and out of his ranges pretty easy. Her throw game is particularly nasty too because one wrong guess and its cr.mp into all her damage.


#14

I dont think this match up is too bad. 5/5 Karin and bison both will have a hard time getting in but when someone does they will lay the hurt. Its a mid range war at the start and we both have options for eachothers normals. i tend to use a lot of standing mk and standing mp in neutral. keep your anti airs on point never let her in. karin has bad anti airs without meter at the start of the round test the player if she hits u get a small tap if not u get in to start your game just dont rely on it. our damage shines on her low health too

karins like to use cr.mp because its +2 i believe and shes in good range for a st.mk after. if u block a random ressenha immedietly use st.lk into blast or sk, dont let her follow up with anything. when she has full meter play more passive. any hit confirm can leave to some explosive super combo.

as far as her normals and movement in footsies i dont think its a problem, vega i feel gives us more grief. its important to realize that we cannot whiff punish normals well because of our slow movement but be we can be a wall that can keep people out. just try not to get into cross up range where our anti air fails at.


#15

Just Started playing Bison again. When Karin does the v trigger backdash after her rekkas, you can totally tag her with st hp into combo if you’ve got a read on it.


#16

Afraid this isn’t true, her backdash bait move off her rekkas are -8 on block. S.HP has 11 frame start up. Bison has nothing to punish it.

One of the harder parts of this match up is learning and remembering what all her shit is on block particularly her Guren Ken V-Trigger options. Even the names of the damn moves are hard to remember.

Guren Ken on its own is -6
The straight up follow up punch is -9 on block.
Her sweep follow up is -10 on block.
Her overhead attack which is -6 on block. Unlike her normal version of the overhead attack, this doesn’t have a sweep follow up move.
Her flip throw that only works on standing opponent and whiffs on crouchers.
She also has the bait move thats -8 on block but leaves her too far away to be punished.

All of Karin’s follow ups to Guren Ken are not true block strings, so reversal Critical Art after blocking Guren Ken will punish it and blow up all follow ups but the bait move.

Her elbow follow up is +1 on block. However this move leaves a 4 frame gap after Guren Ken on block that can allow you to interrupt with a counter hitting C.LP that links to C.MP.
As this move is her only safe on block Garen Ken ender, it tends to be used the most by Karin players.
The elbow leads back to the above sweep, overhead, flip throw mix up if Karin chooses to do so and also to her cross up attack which is invincible for the first 19 of its 24 start up frames. Its -11 on block.

If you don’t want to get stuck in the guessing game, just V-Reversal out of the start of her Guren Ken pressure.


#17

The answer in this matchup is s.MK. It has similar frame data to hers but is longer and stops lots of her forward approach.

V-Skill also beats a lot of her options like the shoulder charge. Also I’ve seen a lot of Karins who like to spam s.MK after a throw tech, you can parry that as well.

Be sure to make her regret sweeping or that button will be a pain to deal with.

Her anti-air game is pretty bad outside of stand jab, so I like testing the Karin’s reactions early on to see how liberally I can jump against them. Causing them to spend the meter on EX Ressenha is worth it imo.


#18

Her S.MK has more range and is 0 on block as opposed to ours which is -2.


#19

Thanks for the correction! I was catching every Karin of multiple levels with it, I just assumed it as truth!


#20

Please what can we do against
-karin shimming with lk on wake up
-her zoning/footsies