Keits All-Brawl Rules, Updated, skisonic Approved. Use these at items events

Edit - After much discussion with SWF related parties and Ski, we have moved back to the true All-Brawl. No bans. All you now need worry about is how stage select and counterpicking works, and the stocks/time/suddendeath.

Just a reminder of my original, very well working ruleset, before Evo compromised with the non-items crowd to get what became the Evo-ruleset.

-**2 stocks, 3 minutes, 3/5 **(this ensures that ‘problem’ situations are not as effective in the overall set, and the short matches ensure that players banking on one strategy (smashball only) might not even see the item they need each round.

-All items set to ON with a medium spawn. (an item will spawn every 10-14 seconds. A full 3 minute match will see only 18 item spawns at most) Edit - ALL items on, now.

-All stages are allowed as random starters AND counterpicks. Edit - Classic Mario Bros is back in, its the only stage that can counter Super Sonic. It may be different, but its not broken. ALSO, to clarify, no custom stages are EVER allowed, even the default ones included as examples on the disc.

-Sudden death WILL decide the outcome of a match. In the face of a stalemate during sudden death, a judge may force the players to play a 1 stock / 3 minute rematch, where sudden death will count again if it is reached.

-**The first stage of a set will be chosen randomly **from all stages. Players will select their characters AFTER a stage is chosen randomly. (Tournament Staff - either press random and then back out to character select, then chose the same stage that random chose after character selection, OR pre assign a starter stage randomly to each round of the tournament (ie, everyone in Losers Round 1 starts on Jungle Japes, and everyone in Winners round 2 starts on Pictochat)

-**Single Counterpicking is in effect. ** The winner may never make any selections. Losers may change character and stay on the same stage, or choose a new stage but keep his character. Never both.

-Players may NOT agree to change rules. They may NOT agree to choose a different starter stage, or different item settings.

I hope this covers everything. Please dont complain about explosive items until you have put in serious practice on this ruleset. My training partners and I see a ‘random death’ to explosives maybe 1 in 100 matches now, and with a 3 out of 5 set, the better player is going to come out on top. You have to play in awareness of your surroundings, of item spawn rhythm, and of course, of your own actions.

Good luck to anyone running this out there. Try to piggyback it at existing SF or Smash tournaments. Make sure you charge at least a small amount of entry money, or your items-hating smash players will enter for free and just fuck around.

If we want to get this style of play into the eyes and hearts of the smash-tolerant world, its going to take a group effort. Don’t let the haters bully you. If they hate it, they simply dont have to play. Remind them that, while they are busy trying to squash you, you mean them no harm and simply enjoy the game this way in a tournament environment. If they won’t leave you alone after that peaceful statement,** pee on their shoes.**


PS - Feel free to make changes and do your own variations… just keep in mind that people wont be forced to find solutions to high-pressure problems if you take them out of the game.


dude sounds cool except all stages allowed, some of those stages are broke.

like any stage with a corner is stupid cause infinite grabs are easily accomplished, other than that some like warioware, fall down to outright luck who gets what power up like you both succeed you get super mushroom your opponent gets invincible (well that sucks), and a few other levels are abuse-able with some chars I assume that you are using the 3/5 matches to help this out, and it will, thats the only thing thats making me not thing you are stupid and in fact pretty smart, cause I like that idea. But still I would like more levels banned like the DK level and 75m are also pretty bad on OMG I got lol killed, scale.

There are multiple levels of fair stages: I like the top 2 levels cause you get like 7-8 stages and none of them are too unbalanced either way.

Fair as can be- Smashville
Causes a few matchups to shift around - battlefield,lyatt,final D …
Can be abused by certain characters- any stage with a wall, walk off stages(a few arn’t too bad like distant planet),Bridge of Eldin(for more reasons than just the walk off.)
wtf I just got lol killed - 75m, mario bros classic, warioware buffs, and rumble falls unless you have that stage memorized.

It is your rules and it will make a good tourny heck I would go and play, and whine when I got lol killed, but looks promising, If we have a tourny around here I might try to get these rules, but with more tourny *** stages (sorry).

don’t think you have to worry about explosive items being a problem, in melee they were :(, but in brawl they seem less common, and not as good, and the knock-back of all items is increased combined with being so much easier to grab items out of the air makes it not that big of a deal.

I would have to say though BETTER than the evo ruleset despite the fact that I am leaning towards no items, but I have started to accept them in the last few months as legit.

and Im going to quote this webcomic there was a video that was good on youtube too, Im searching for it.

Edit: found it now for the [media=youtube]O-7gmds2njg"[/media]

You’ll come around on the stages too. None of them are broken if the rules above are in play. Runaway cannot start until a player as a 1 stock lead, and if it does, the matches are only 3 minutes so its over pretty quickly. Getting that one stock lead on some of the stages that enable a good runaway game can take 2+ minutes sometimes.

All in all, the tournament’s rules should never attempt to hamper certain styles of play. Winning is winning, no matter how good or bad it looks. Thanks for the reply, and I’m glad there are people out there open to multiple styles of tournament play.

I’ve run these rules btw, and been infinited grabbed in the corner. Thats how it goes!

Edit - and not to be insulting, but if you think you can randomly die on 75m, you have not played the stage. Nothing unpredictable happens on it at all, ever.

no what 75m does, its it makes you camp in one of 2 locations and if they are doing the under DK camp, it will result in cheap kills(like most of them, either backtoss to death at 30% or up smash to omg DK just woke up blam blam blam dead started at 40%., and Im not worried about runaway, because its hard to play keep away in brawl unless your opponent is like bowser or ganon.

All and all though if any one is hosting a tourny with these rules in NC state I would like to know, I ay it again this looks better than evo where the made it some sort of convoluted mix between many different rule sets, massive props to you if I could increase rep I probably would increase yours a little. Hopefully the weird levels plus items will keep every game looking a little different.

ps: the main reason why I like your ruleset is because its not smash ball dependent, cause you leave basically everything on, plus the fact that you have the phoenix makes it less likely smashes will come up which is just as fair as some final smashes heck its fairer you can’t combo into the damn thing, cough, Ike,Sheik/Zelda, ZSS,toon link(I think), a few more I can’t remember right now.

While I may not agree with everything, you make good points and I certainly respect your opinion. I might attempt single counterpicks since my upcoming tournament (which is in Charlotte, NC) I’m attempting a variant of the ISP ruleset.

Rules updated. True all-brawl has returned, uninhibited, underage, and topless.

Hey guys.

When brawl launched, I preferred no items. I had played a little bit of melee, not entered any tourneys though. I had learned under smashboarders, and I just went along with their rulesets.

Ive played brawl pretty extensively, from the outset, both items on and off. After much time, I’ve come to the conclusion that no item is too broken to be defeated. It would take length to go into detail and those arguments have been covered time and time again in other places, so I wont bore you here with that. Simply put, the designers worked on making a game that can be a fun and enjoyable experience for everyone, and the items are PART of that, not the MEANS to it.

I think it is a tremendous slap in the face to think that more than half the content in the game needs to be banned to make the game “competitive”. If we had to ban assists and DHC’s in marvel2 to make it worthy, we would still be playing mvc1 (cringe). Likewise, if this is seriously how you feel about brawl, I really think you should be playing a different game. I cannot understand how you can take YOUR game seriously, if you have to turn off the most UNIQUE aspects of the game, and ban its SELLING POINTS. How can you think, that just by turning these things off, now all of a sudden you have a great game that is respectable?? This is not just banning a secret character who cannot be dizzied, this is naming more than half of the stages as completely unplayable and calling multiple layers of secondary attacks unfair or broken. It just doesn’t make sense to me, the game is fine as it is. If you have to do all that, your game is NOT respectable. Its a piece of trash, making sweeping bans is like trying to fix it with duct tape. If you can’t stand the heat, don’t play a game with super spicy curry.

My personal opinion as of today, I still have fun with brawl, I’ll play (casually) with or without items. I firmly believe, that Brawl gets boring without items after sometime. Melee? not the case, as there were tons of “advanced techniques” to keep the game interesting in other ways. Brawl doesn’t have those things. It was designed for other things. I am not saying that it is wrong to play without items, or turn them off. Thats why the switch is there, and its good that you should be able to play how you like it. You COULD turn off the assists in mvc2, or play No groove cvs2 if you wished… Its just not enticing to me, as a gamer. Items in brawl create its unique experience, rather than failing in trying to emulate every other fighting game on the market. Stages too. These things are, as a wise man once told me simply “part of the game”. They make it what it is, and that’s something I come to enjoy. So after much discussion, and thorough testing and review, we’ve decided that our preferred tournament ruleset is everything on. Yea it sucks when sonic gets classic mario bros, but it sucks when I lose 3 chars to unblockables as well. Its just a part of the game. I play because I have FUN, and I enjoy the ACTUAL GAME, and find it unnecessary to arbitrarily create a crippled version.

This is running long, and Im sure I will get drawn into another items argument or two before all is said and done, so ill save the rest for another day. I appreciate your patience, and welcome your input.

AllBrawl IS Brawl.
Thank you for playing.

play on playas.

This is a good start for testing. We should turn everything on and see what happens. I guess the question is what would be the criteria for banning an item.

lol, awesome.

Well, now no one can say the pro-Items crowd is hypocritical.

Good luck to you Keits.

45 new all brawl matches are up on my youtube if you want to see what this ruleset looks like between two competitive players.

I watched a few matches. All the power to you if you prefer playing that way. I still don’t think I like it.

I am not sure if you guys just aren’t used to the items yet or just don’t know your opponents, but there was a lot of stalling it seems. The matches are slower than I expected with items on. Maybe its just because both players were playing very defensively.

Its BECAUSE we know eachother so well, AND because of the matchup. Wario has a hard time rushing Ike down, and Ike has a hard time being anything but defensive due to his punishability.

Usually I just attack him till one of us dies, but I’m good enough now that I can give him the respect he deserves and spend more time trying to bait and punish him.

I don’t typically post for the sole purpose of kissing ass…largely because ass is not pleasant to the taste. However, I just want to let all you folks know that I was a staunch believer in NO ITEMS FOX ONLY FINAL DESTINATION until Keits provided solid, concrete, irrefutable evidence that All-Brawl is the way to go. Not only does it provide a more exciting, fast-paced, chaotic atmosphere, but it also heavily increases the game’s balance so that Brawl tournaments don’t always boil down to Meta Knight dittos.
Keits, permission to link to your YouTube channel in my sig? You da man. :tup:

KEITS, I wanted to let you know that after playing some all-brawl yesterday I actually found brawl … … FUN in addition to being competitive. I still won the matchups I should have and lost the matchups I should have 100%. The only part of All-Brawl I still have a hard time swallowing is the stages, and it’s just because I really don’t like a lot of Brawl stages. I’ve found my preferred method of play, and it’s items on, SWF stage list. Shoot me for it if you want, but it’s what I enjoy.

I was a pretty big item skeptic, and I’m sad to say that in order to start enjoying them I first had to play SWF Brawl until I was completely bored with it. By those rules, I consider Brawl a bad game and would rather play something else.

^ In the end, that’s what matters. Playing how you like ^_^. No-items and items should both be competitively viable styles and Smash just has so much room to be molded to tastes.

I suspect stage counterpicking is gonna be a big part of the game, though. Even if you don’t like the stages very much, at least knowing how to navigate them efficiently with your character will ensure you’re at the top of your game nomatter what the opponent picks. And some counterpicks can be surprisingly annoying even among neutral stages. Imagine my surprise when I found out the hard way how much Battlefield messes with Jiggly’s air control @_o.

Are these rules just to throw out there? I don’t really see a point besides “I think the rules should be this.” It definitely can’t be for next Evo or for all those Brawl SRK tournies (don’t blame them for not playing this game =/). Items are fun I guess…

Lobelia: Thanks and go ahead. Hope to play you at a live event in this sometime, perhaps Final Round?

CStrife - Glad to hear it. I think you’ll come around on the stages eventually too. With all items on medium, none of them are broken and runaway/camping carries a higher risk.

Carbunkle - Very right, sir. Stage counterpicking is going to take a long time to learn. If you are a player with several mains, you can usually character counterpick your way out of a bad stage counterpick. But if you are a single character main, I highly suggest learning in the ins-and-outs of all the stages with your character.

Keep on rockin’ guys.

This is certainly worth exploring. I’m still at a halfway point between All Brawl and ISP rules concerning items. Part of my difficulty is finding a proper venue to test since as a TO I doubt I can get anyone to play competitive All Brawl as opposed to ISP. As far as videos, I’ve only watched a few (you really should make a playlist) but I can see the skill involved. If you ever find the time, I’d like to see this with more characters, particularly bottom tier vs. top tier matches.

And I agree that stage counterpicks will have a major effect. I was also surprised that Jigglypuff gets messed so much by the “neutral” Battlefield.