Ken General Thread: Go with the Flow

ken

#3221

I mean that his st.hk…which is -4 point blank usually -2 or 3 with good spacing. most characters need to use a medium to hit ken from a properly spaced one. if you hp dp after a properly spaced st.hk. you will beat their medium. obviously if you’re wrong you’re gonna eat shit. but it stops people from mashing their cc button after it.


#3222

He’s definitely viable, and I see potential when finally putting in the time to experiment with his new frame traps that came with the s2 patch.

The overhead loss is whatever, mostly a gimmick if you ask me since landing it meaty is almost never legit with me rarely using it once every few days in neutral.

He’s at the very least going to be better than the version we have now, the dp changes are actually kind of huge, the removal of jump tech will help with ken’s momentum by a wide margin, and we’re seeing some nerfs (even if small) to the top tiers.

He’s going to be a solid character, maybe not “pop v trig and win” tier, but solid enough for me to stick with

I think ken is fun to play definitely. He takes work though, and you have to grind out all his 1 hit confirms. The most offputting aspect of him in this version is that if you can’t confirm lowforward into super, dp, or ex tatsu then you’re going to have a much harder time competing against the top tiers at high level. You also have to develop a counterpoking game, since this is where ken gets most of his mileage. IMO he’s ridiculously nuanced and without his season 1 tatsu shenanigans you can’t just do shit and get in for free anymore. Not to scare you away from ken, since I had a similar experience when I was new in 2013 hopping right into Dudley with precision-based neutral.

His V skill is very useful. After you land a knockdown with anti air dp or with a heavy dp (from combo) you have to v skill to continue the pressure. After the v skill you have enough time to react to how they’re quick rising and throw people out of wakeup 3f jabs. After his heavy tatsu combo ender you just have to walk forward/react.


#3223

Yea he seems a lot of fun, my only concern with ken now is that after any CC you have to be fast and hit confirm to follow up with the run since that’s where the run is most useful. I mean say I’m in neutral playing footsies, if I throw out any of his heavy attacks and it connects as a cc then how can I react fast enoufh to do vskill? I mean I can buffer vskill after every cc button on neutral but if they block my attack and the vskill comes out (remember I’m buffering it just in case I get a cc) then that’s a full punish for them. Not sure how I feel about this as every other character doesn’t need to hit confirm their crush counters.


#3224

what are these?

Yeah, I’m gonna stick with Ken as well, although it feels kinda crappy to not have a reliable answer to characters like Laura and Cammy pressing buttons in your face all day. I really want my b.mp 4 frames back, and if air Ex tatsu is going to be this easy to stuff, I don’t get why its negative on block.


#3225

I’m on the fence whether to play ken or akuma. akuma has the same counter poking stuff to his game but with better offense and neutral.


#3226

Dude I’m in the same boat. I’m having trouble choosing to play either Akuma or ken. Akuma being plus on almost any normal blocked canceled into vtrigger especially sweep is important to me since that can be the difference between winning a close round with a sweep or at least being plus if they block it. Also you think akuma has a better neutral? Both are stubby but at least ken has range on his kicks.


#3227

I think akuma is better in neutral, because of his st.lp good range 3 frame normal. cr.mp + 3 instead of plus 2. st.hp 8 frames, it’s -5 but I rarely get punished at max range. better fireball. st.mk is a great whiff punisher. more range than kens b.mp. cr.hp is also a very good normal in certain situations.

ken has range on his kicks but they aren’t very good. st.mk whiffs on crouchers, doesn’t combo into tc2 all the time. st.hk is just meh, it’s super slow a lot of recovery and doesn’t combo on regular hit.


#3228

This confirm is one of his easier ones, it’s still hard if you’re newer to it. You react fast enough by training your brain to stop thinking and just perform this type of twitch. In this version if you land crush counter standing roundhouse you’re mostly better off holding down v skill for the full step kick, this is because following up into dp can whiff and you’ll get punished at max range. The damage is the same unless it’s one of those rare occasions where all 3 hits of the heavy dragon punch hit. As for crush counter standing heavy punch, it’s an option select. You have to find the timing to hit v skill after standing heavy punch so that your run only comes out on crush counter, put dummy on random counter hit/block and practice it.

@OmniCloud

There’s a few i’ve found to make ken’s pressure a bit more sticky instead of just 2 buttons now it’s your opponent’s turn

St.lp st.lp st.mp: All linked, not chained. 2F gap between the first two and a 5F gap between the st.lp and st.mp. Hit confirm the double st.lp into heavy dp or ex tatsu/dp. If the first jab is blocked then you have to be on your toes, if the second jab connects it’s usually a counter hit by now that links into standing medium + heavy tatsu. If neither of the first 2 hits connect then you can go st.mp fireball (unless you’re opponent is cornered, fireball will get punished on block)r, or just st.mp. After you have your st.mp blocked you’re in a good range to hit standing roundhouse/dash/fireball/jump/whiff punish. I stress the importance of going straight to dp if the first jab hits, meaning by the time you hit the second jab you should have confirmed this by now and should not be hitting standing medium punch anymore.

Cr.lp Cr.lp St.lk: Corner only, since you have to be right in their grill for this to work. Confirm into heavy shoryu on first cr.lp hitting, you should abandon st.lk by now. If the first cr.lp is blocked you should have confirmed this by now and be committing to hitting standing light kick after the second cr.lp. Goddamn this sounds convoluted, i’ll upload a vid soon.

There’s a couple more benefits to this outside of auto-piloting to b.mp too


#3229

Unless you are a pro, i don’t see why you would not play whomever you find the most fun. Gouki is definitely a better character for various reasons but if you don’t enjoy using him as much as Ken, it defeats the purpose of playing a game (have fun).

@MochaLatte

What i like to do in close oki is confirm from a cr mp since it has more active frames. If it connects, goto a combo and if it gets blocked, goto st lp, st mp. If i see a ch message i cancel the st mp into hk tatsu.


#3230

well sure, play who you like. I happen to like both. just figuring out which one I wanna commit to.

the dp buff is so amazing I don’t think I can play season 2 anymore until they update it.


#3231

These are all great, but if you’re not gonna go into bmp, why not just start with d.lk?

D.lk sLP sMP sounds hella solid


#3232

Cr.lk for characters without a 3f jab. Those were really only surface examples, it gets pretty deep. Also if you start with cr.lp instead of cr.lk, the gap beats 3f jabs and all 3 hits of heavy shoryuare guaranteed to connect assuming you’re point blank. I’ll go into more depth in a bit
Right now i have to play the surge


#3233

you cannot go back to s2…after playing the beta. I need my dps back :’( …send help capcom.

can’t wait for the write up mocha.


#3234

When you say dp’s back you mean the invincible mp dp right?


#3235

I mean dps that don’t lose to jump ins


#3236

Yah same. When I tried practicing it, the execution requirement for LP LP MP seemed to be prohibitively difficult.

LP,LP xxDP is super tight, so I don’t see how it’s possible to do it without buffering the DP motion. But if you buffer a DP motion, it’s hard to get a raw MP instead of a fireball or shoryu.


#3237

You need to link the lps, not chain them so it makes it easier to hit confirm without having the pre emptively buffer.


#3238

Tks for this…will practice in training for a while before going back to ranked. Gonna try and reach master. Ken desperately needs his 4 frame b.mp back imo, everything he does feels super risky and it’s basically like you can’t play Ken to the proper degree without doing unsafe (as spontaneous as possible of course) runs. I pray they just make his HK a bit faster or give us the old b.mp back. The air tatsu nerf, stubby normals, I’ll take it all just give me back a good solid button!! Sheesh…

Either way, I’m sticking with Ken and alt Ryu so if I can’t get it down with them I’m done until Season 3 lol.

Hopefully Momochi gets back to Ken full time with the patch. Seems like ibuki might be his new main?


#3239

Mp dp still trades more than it should, especially vs meaty crossups and good jump-in buttons. The TC1 not linking bug is still there too.

Momochi is really trying to make Ken viable. He used him exclusively in the latter stages of ELeague and on Combo Breaker. Right now it seems hopeless though, Smug vs Momochi was so lopsided it was comical and Big Bird couldn’t get a top 2 position in the RB open tournament. Still, Big Bird’s st lk to mk tatsu buffer seems like a very powerful tool we should all grind in training (do the cancel quick enough and mk tatsu does not come out when st lk whiffs).


#3240

^Yeah, at this point, I’m thinking the only thing that may get buffed for Ken is hit boxes. I don’t see any changes coming for him so hopefully Mochi can do something with the current Kit. Boxer is usually just a hard match for Ken in general, but it’s really difficult when Ken doesn’t have an effective way to get in. Really miss that air Tatsu sometimes.