Discuss your thoughts and tactics for this match up here -
I have zero Ken knowledge - when is it my turn?
Played this match quite a bit tonight and it seems like Guile has an issue with Ken’s sweep. It has better range than his mediums and forces you to try and punish it with your own sweep, which isn’t great for whiff punishing because its slow and if you fuck up he gets a free dp. I’ll go into training mode with it tomorrow and see if there’s something obvious I missed but it seems like it’s pretty annoying to me.
Everyone’s sweep is punishable with CA. Even though you can’t do it all the time, doing it once will definitely make them think twice about sweeping.
The downside, obviously, is that if you don’t have full stock, that threat isn’t on the table.
punish sweeps with hk flash kick. More range and faster start-up than sweep plus more damage and similar oki. You can also punish with fkxxCA I guess
I’m talking more about whiff punishing it. Do you really want to commit to a hk flash kick (which can be crush countered for 30-50% of your health) for a whiff punish? And what if you don’t have a down charge? This is kinda what I’m getting at - Ken can kind of fish for sweep.
I use flash kick to whiff punish all the time but yeah sweep is generally better for it. His sweep really isn’t slow (faster than half the cast’s, only one frame slower than the fastest sweeps which are 7 frames) and its range does the job. If it’s not far enough you can whiff punish with f mk instead or just throw more booms.
Ken can be quite troublesome if he’s good at being offensive to me.
Feels even to me. Ken will absolutely obliterate you once he gets in and gets going, but that’s no different than him against anyone else. We can out-zone him and we can out footsie him. We just have to be ON POINT with anti-airs and not over-commit to buttons or booms and allow him to get jumpins.
Note: Ken’s c.mp xx VS is -7f.
Edit: VS not VT
Huh? It’s +3 on block.
You’re right, typo.
Couple of things that really piss me off about this match -
Flash kick trades with a lot of his jumping attacks. I thought it was because I was doing the light version but no the heavy trades with stuff too. One game I looked at the trade damage and realised that he’d basically done as much damage to me as the flash kick did to him! Maybe that’s just the thing with trades in this game.
If you get cornered you are pretty much fucked.
Risk reward of random dp’s and frame trap into dp is definitely in the Ken players favour.
One of my pet peeves about this game is how some characters have amazing dashes and can punish you for you trying to punish it lol. It’s ridiculous. Ken is one of these characters. He can dash up throw and if you try to neutral jump into punish he can dp your neutral jump after his throw recovers. I genuinely think something needs to be done about this situation when they rebalance the game (not just for Ken but for all characters). I don’t think you should get a 2 in 1 and be able to punish your opponent because he read your dash and tried to punish you for it,
His V-Reversal is deceptively good. Not the V-Reversal itself but the oki he gets afterwards (regardless of if it hits you or if you block really). He can do stuff like:
V-Reversal - dp
V-Reversal - walk up throw
V-Reversal - walk up whiff throw - dp
So in many ways even if he makes mistakes like whiffing a throw, he can immediately just mash dp and you have to hope you didn’t press throw.
I play Bison too and I do much better against Ken with Bison as he can do some serious damage to Ken if Ken gets too dp happy.
Solid AA (cr.FP, st.MK, air throw) should convince Ken to stay on the ground, which opens opportunities to blow him up with f+HP crush counters.