Ken/Ryu problem

As a noob Guile I seem to have the most trouble with Ken and Ryu noobs.

Their strategy consists of the following:

Hadouken
Jump
HK
c.HK
Jump back
Hadouken
Jump
HK
c.HK

rinse and repeat

Now - if I jump after them - they just jump back some more and spam projectile. If I shoot off a sonic boom - they jump over it into the HK>c.HK.

I have been using down fierce like a madman but it seems it only works when directly under the jumping player - this is problematic seeing as when I block their hadouken it pushes be back just far enough that my down fierce does not work.

While I’m tossing out 4-5 hit combos they’re using 3 buttons to get away with the win.

I can’t help but feel like I’m being nicked when their whole philosophy is simply “the more I jump the more I win.”

Help please, I’m getting lamed out all day.

maybe they do it cause you cant counter it?

standing or back medium punch is good anti-air. Try a safe jump over the hadoken to bait a shoryuken. Punish it with crouch medium punch flashkick. Looks like you’re playing noobs, they’ll fall for it.

Have you tried focus dash cancel to get through the fireballs?

You recover quick from slow booms, you can probably meet them in the air as they jump for a counter or an air throw.

If they get in and try to c.hk just block and punish with lk flash kick or if you have meter ex it.

I decided to step away from the stick for a while because it seemed every Shoto I’d play against was using the above mentioned technique.

Went for a cruise around the block, paid off my credit card, got some Chocolate Milk in me and on the way home I realized I could have been FADC’ing the hadouken.

The problem is they seem to be jumping just as I’m throwing to counter their projectile.

I’m going to jump back in game after I finish this salad and recorded matchup.

Thanks for the help - I didn’t want to make this my first thread, but I needed a break from the computer to think more clearly.

Yea, recorded matchup would REALLY help

Don’t counter projectile, it’s what they’re looking for. If you do counter, use jab boom (light punch boom). Block the hadouken, wait for the jump, and EX flash kick them. If they sweep, flash kick them. Guile’s round-house flash kick (rh.fk or “hard kick” flash kick strength) can punish Ryu’s sweep on reversal from quite a way’s away.

Alternatively, crouching fierce punch (c.fp) works wonders, as does standing medium punch (s.mp), for anti-air. You can also meet them in the air and air-throw them. Do this 3-4 times, and unless they’re REALLY stupid, they’ll stop jumping and be pretty clueless about what to do next. They’ll likely try some other tactic in order to get a jump-in on you.

The first step is learning how to break down the very basic strategies. Tear them apart, Guile’s actually pretty good at stopping the jumping roundhouse -> sweep repetitions. An EX FK here, an EX boom to stuff their fireball attempt.

Nothing says, “No.” like an EX boom on reaction to their hadouken animation and stuffing them with it :slight_smile: (It’s also a good feeling when you get to the point that you actually recognize that animation and react accordingly to it off instinct). It’s pretty amazing what you can do to people when you do things consistently.

For future questions about specific matchups, refer to the match-up thread and ask your question there. Less clutter and less potential for angst (some people don’t appreciate new threads). People frequent these boards and especially the stickies, so you’ll definitely get an answer quickly.

"Ok, seeing that vid on the fron page made me want to post a ryu or ken matchup strategy in my experience, through playing and observation.

Ryu essentially seems to be a 2 trick pony. Either he’s trying to bait you into giving away damage by jumping in at the wrong time, or he’s jumping in himself trying to cross you up or hoping he gets lucky enough so your anti-airs don’t work.

I start off the round analyzing what he will do as usual. If he jumps in, make SURE you activate crouching fierce early as some of these guys seem to abuse lag to win. It’ll knock him out of the air and you can score a lp sonic boom afterwards. Once hit with that, some ryus again try to jump in hoping to get lucky because of sonic booms recovery time. Luck is inconsistant, so sometimes it actually works depending on the connection, but if lag isn’t on his side then you rinse and repeat.

If you’d rather not chance it, you might be able to airthrow,rolling sobat forwards, or simply block and get ready to tech a throw because he will be frustrated and desperate for damage. If he starts the round with hurricane kick, either FK or crouching fierce will do, easy. If he starts with hadoken, create fullscreen distance and continue to read him. Challenge his fireballs, but don’t get into a war, you want to jump one and then at midscreen you’re going to need to be far more cautious about jumping in, and a rolling sobat hits clean over his popular crouching mk, which gets you into “boxing range” which is a good thing with Guile.

Sometimes the ryu misjudges your reflexes and tosses a hadoken within punishment range, possibly to push you back so you are set up for either of his 2 strategies. Learn to read the startup of the hadoken so you score a jumpin combo and punish them for this mistake.

Ryu’s seem to like to sit outside of poke range and wait for a crossup opportunity. once they jump you can use a rolling sobat forward, and you’ll land before they do so you can use a crouching jab combo to score some damage, or you can slightly move back and crouch fierce to prevent this also, or airthrow them if they are really predictable(such as in the corner).

The main thing against Ryu is to be patient and calm enough to judge which one of his 2 tricks he’s trying to set up, and put your mind in the mode to counter it ahead of time since they can rely on lag or nerfed anti-airs.

Remember, they NEED these things to work in order to beat you, so don’t get impatient or overconfident and throw the match away, force them to make the mistakes and take advantage of lp sonic booms superior recovery time. Ryus who are constantly anti-air’d lose focus quickly and get angry."

Thats a copy and pasted ryu noob strategy

Well put sir…

I would add (should be very evident) once you confound and punish Ryu enough to load his ultra, you should know and recognize all of the setups for Ryu’s ultra.

Most common is just hadoooookens baiting a jump in for srk>fadc>ultra. Occasionally you may see a rushdown for ex tatsu>ultra or ex hado>ultra or Air to Air mp>ultra or Jhk>ultra or… ugh, so many damn ways to link to ultra.

Anyways, my point. Most Ryu’s you encounter will want to (and be conditioned to) use their ultra once they get it. They will often abandon a winning strategy because they feel like they need to use their ultra.

As soon as you see that revenge meter burning, knowing that there will be a strategy change can make for some nice punishes.

I would avoid playing online with shotos. The lag is not charge-char friendly

Completely agree, but playing them online makes them seem much tamer offline.

Possibly because a lot of online shotos get used to using unsafe moves and getting away with it. eg. blocked tatsu being a setup for throw os srk; or Ken hp srk being almost safe on block.

Haha yea…that would be the second strategy where they try and get you to jump in at a bad time, but it’s easier to take that away from them by not jumping dangerously so i spent more time on the lag tactics they love,or the crossup weakness they exploit

**I would avoid playing online with shotos. The lag is not charge-char friendly **

Yea i was thinking that at first, but honda can REALLY benefit from lag,and i could see how blanka rog or bison can as well. Guile seems to be one of the few characters that’s brutalized by lag, but i guess that’s why i just don’t understand how playing with a disadvantage such as this won’t make you far stronger offline,where your moves and combos and defense always work

lol if only this statement true .
MAYBE Toyotas the charge with the least disadvantage , but it doesnt make him better. Blanka gains a slight advantage it seems.

shotos are annoying and if there good probably the hardest match to win. Well first of all you gotta be the patient one, you can match his hadouken with your booms full screen dont ever let them think they can beat you with hadoukens thats when ull fierce hadous in the face. From full screen use neutral jump dont be predictable i sometimes to a grab in the air for a short jump. When your mid range i typically dont reccomend booms most players anticipate especially if your charging so neutral jump. Remember backfist owns just mix it up the only thing you have to worry about up close ix ex hadouken which knocks you too far for normals, dont jump in after exhadouken up close ever they recover too quickly too much time to dp cancel ultra. If he cr medium kicks your back fist you, then next time cr medium kick first if cr medium kick hadouken link is haunting you ex flash kick after medium kick to crush the hadouken. Focus attack if he begins to trip. you gotta win this on the ground, I think personally good luck. You gotta be great to win this even if the ryu is just good!

Note if hes a scrub hell probably mash dp when u beat him up a little, when he whiffs cr mp flash kick or st fierce super if you got bars

Been faring much, much better after some practice. I must have played over 60 games against ken/ryu players and I’ve really focused a lot on situational awareness - it’s paid off not just against the shotos, but in every matchup.

Today I fought a Bison who really relied on rushing me down with scissors - but I realized that every time he was anything more than half a screen away he’d jump in with the head stomp. I met him with a few air throws and he stopped trying that shit a little too late in the game. After that I just kept meeting him in the air with my Fierce Punch and it was game.

Thanks for the sound advice.

if you think it’s bad now wait until you play a decent ryu. they will almost make you cry from the frustration of them seemingly having endless possibilities against you.:rofl:

Playing casually right now and to be honest I’m not looking to get too competitive. I ship out for the Army in just a month so I’m just having fun playing the character I enjoy.

When SFIV:Dash is released I’m hoping Guile will see some improvement. I really enjoyed watching Dieminion beat down Joe’s Sagat for a few rounds - if I could get my Guile to that level at whatever point in the future I’d be more than satisfied.

Still, no rush.

i so agree with u bro. i got ma ass owned a couple of times by some excellent shotos.

FADC their fireball when you’re in mid range and target combo, or just mk. One you’re in close range you can mix up with standing fierce if they try to jump away. Don’t let them runaway and reset. Just keep hunting them. If you have health advantage just sit back and turtle, 'cus that’s what they’re doing.

standing back fierce also works. also, try hitting back short kick after a SB to advance forward… knee bazooka works great. You can also throw slow sonic boom dash after it and fierce uppercut them if they are jumping over it. my only problem is crossups… they kill me. still trying to get out of it when playing experts.