Ken vs chun ground normals + strat

ken

#1

all her moves pretty much out prioritize ken in a ground fight. The only moves i see that are practical are the c.mk confirm super and sweep. Even those moves get stuff but they dont get stuffed as much as everything else. The short short super is ok but her c.jab is 1 frame + hella priority. Youll never get in close against a decent chun player who can whore the fuck out of her jab. The c.mp is worthless when you fight against her because all her moves beat it. So the whole fight im trying to stay out of the corner and land a c.mk super. Sometimes ill get lucky and get a double sweep and ill follow that up with a throw or ill get a throw throw. This doesnt happen often and most of the time im fighting hit for hit. Its getting to the point where I have to run around for 10 seconds and do nothing just so i can surprise her with the c.mk super. I dont know how much longer my strat is going to hold up. I could go for the xup trap on chun cause of her shitty anti air but that too will only work for so long. I dont want to exploit this because it will turn into parry super eventually.

whats everyone doing for advanced chun fights? in my eyes if you play her right she cannont be beaten. Thats probably why wong and a shit load of japs play her. Her throw is god like, all her normals fucking own ne thing, nothing beats b+fp and its almost instant counter which you can turn into hit confirm super. This bitch is str8 broken…

the only strat I see that could work would be a solid yun strat. Fast strong damage and small meter seems likes a weakspot for her.

someone drop some knowledge.


#2

Your right chun li played PERFECTLY would probably be unstoppable to beat. But no one in actual play can really play perfectly, its just that it will be an uphill fight depending on your knowledge of the matchup.

I’m assuming your not playing the greatest chun in the world. Against average to inexperience chun li, its about punish the recovery of most her attacks like b+fp, far s.rh, far st. fp, and if your really fast like ricky ortiz, cr.mk. U can punish either with a sweep or cr.mk. Most of the pokes u’ll use is early cr.mk, sweep, standing roundhouse, and probably whiffing st. mp for meter and stuffing random stuff.

Of course u’ll need to get inside, cr.jab is 2 frame move and as u know really good. But its not godly. If she’s mash jab and u can get inside u have to go for counter hits. cr. short, pause cr.short cr.short super. cr.short cr mp link into super. etc.etc. More likely than not u’ll mix her up. The only thing going for her is she has ex spinning bird kick, and one random super puts her back in the game.

In theory this match is like 55-45, but in actual play its just more of an intense 50-50 match if but sides play well. Just watch a lot of ken vids and u’ll see what i mean. Most of the ffa ranbats have good kens like ed ma, paul lee, 5 star, so u can see how they fare.


#3

ive seen them play but I hardly i see fight against chuns. I can fight yun and other shotos I just have a hard time with chun. Every once in a while it will be amir vs a good ken player but its only for a match. Not enough time to analyze it good.


#4

Because 3rd strike is a huge mind game, nobody can play “perfectly” unless they are psychic. For advanced Chun battles I usually just try to be selective in what moves I try to attempt (mostly moves that have fast recovery because fierce & roundhouse are a bit too punishable). Just keep your distance, use the mind games and fit those shoryus, grabs, strong fierces and (any) shippu links when you can… but when you’re Ken against Chun you have to be especially patient if you wanna win because she’s much quicker than Ken.


#5

Huh, thought Chun had good anti air. Back fierce, roundhouse (close and far), far strong, crouching roundhouse and jab are all good.


#6

she has to be in the right position for those. I dont think they work well for crossups.

chuns turlte game is way better than kens. You can type in wait all day but if chun adds a little pressure shell force an error. Shell double throw you and make you do something. No one ever stands around for the 3rd throw and good fucking luck teching her god throw. My comp is fast enough to punish a wiff c.mk. and can parry punish. All he has to do is wait me out and parry super. Kens confirms are hard as hell and in this matchup 1 c.mk super can be the game. chun also has that bobo ass c.mk confirm which you can never fuck up. If Chun is going to play safe thats automatically an up hill battle for ken.

I understand the strategy to beat her. It just seems like the ken player has to be almost twice as good as the chun player just to beat her. Chun has the ground advantage, the hit confirm advantage, the throw advantage and her biggest weakness (air attacks) ken cant really exploit well because chun can single parry out of it or block. If she blocks, she cant just jab then poke chain until shes in her fierce range again.

You wouldnt need to play perfect with her. If you can whore her shit and know when to add pressure she can easily win. She owns the ground for free. Anyone with a decent ground game and can parry well will own with chun.


#7

Yeah, she doesn’t have anything good to punish a crossup without a parry, but still a good player won’t have a problem knowing the effective ranges of their moves.


#8

against chun’s, i use a lot max ranged cr.roundhouse/forward…
you really have to deal damage before she gets her super.
i think crossing her up is not a bad idea…
parry bait for her cr.jabs. close st.mp then down parry for her jab…
works really well if she’s a jab masher.
and always anticipate her far st.fierce when in range. parry or punish w/ super if whiffed.

always easier said than done.


#9

I just started doing parry punish on her s.fp. Works hella good for people who love that move. When I try to rush her down when she has no meter, I get smoked. S.fp’s b+fp, s.hk for sweeps. I take 3 fierces on counter and its half life. But yea, it is easier said then done.

Is chuns wake up game her biggest weakness? If thats the case, ill go for more knockdowns. I dont see alot of options with her for wake up. Just ex bird kick or maybe ex lightning kicks?


#10

UOH over that bitch’s crouching forwards. I like standing roundhouse from max range and even the occasional cr. roundhouse from max range, to score a knock down. Rush he down when she doesnt have meter, and dont be scared to try to parry.


#11

I like this advice. :tup:


#12

If chun really likes to whore her zoning moves, just parry it. Your own distance from Chun wil be deciding the guessing game, so be carefull.

c.HK is ok to use if she has no meter. s.HK and c.MK from Ken are safe zoning tools, use those.


#13

Easier said then done eh? If she has no meter then dont worry if you mess up a parry she cant really hurt you too much.


#14

Actually, if the Chun is stupid enough to swing out her normals whenever she can, she’ll be giving away parries.


#15

s.HK is safe? i don’t think so


#16

ken beats chun with no meter, when chun has meter, it’s even and risky for both parties


#17

s.HK is -4 on block, reversable, but not easy to do it.

Just don’t use s.MK, that’s suicide(-6 on block).


#18

Trying to parry her attacks on the ground when she has no meter isn’t the best method for fighting her. Maybe if you jump in and she always try to do some standing anti air. If that’s the case, then the reward/risk ratio is in your favor. But on the ground, I find parries as a distraction. Option parrying, however, can be useful.

Against intermidiate to scrub chuns, you can walk back and forth and bait out moves all day. Wheter it’s s. hp, cr. mk, b+fp, let her whiff it and do cr. hk or
cr. mk xxsa3. Knocking her down early greatly increases your chance of beating her before she gets meter. You could potentially get far enough ahead so that you can afford to eat a super. Actually, if she supers you when she has no life and you are way ahead…that’s a good thing.

Against advanced chuns, you need to play cautiously but aggressive. When i mean aggressive, I don’t mean rush rush rush. Be careful about dashing in. Walk forward carefully and try to pressure her with s. hk and max range cr. hk. I like doing max range cr. hk. She can’t punish the cr. hk if it’s blocked at max range unless she’s got super. Also, jumping in from far away is another way to gain ground. She really can’t punish that either. This serves many purposes. You can possibly trip her up, you can get meter wheter your attack was blocked or not, and possibly make chun committ to an attack that missed which you can punish.

When she gets meter, she’s like a million times more dangerous as everyone knows. If you just crouch and sit there, a good chun will likely resort to her kara throw. Her kara throw has deceptive range. She might do it a few times and the next time you try to tech-hit, she’ll do cr. mk, hit confirm, sa2. So you can’t just sit there because of that mixup. Even though she has a super, don’t be scared but be very aware of her meter. You’ll have to try to stand your ground and punish anything loose. Make her work to gain any ground. Avoid the temptation of dashing in. All chun has to do is react with a cr. mk or you could get hit by random cr. mk. Also, if you parry a cr. mk…wait and see if she supers. You can only punish her with an instant super or cr. lk xx super. Anything else, you’ll get hit by her sa. Sometimes chun players think that the parry was a hit. Or they super anyway after the parry in case you tried a move that was too slow.

Once you have her cornered, life gets much easier. Stick with tick-throws, whiff-throw, walk up throw, dash back (draws out throw, normals), walk back-hesistate-throw, target combo, crouching lk, lk. If you want to walk up and throw, press forward for a split second then throw. This way if she does cr. jab, you’ll parry and throw her. Her cr. jab comes out if she tried option select. Another trick that works is doing a late jump in and do his target combo while she’s knocked down. The other player thinks that you mis-timed your jump and will try to throw you. Hope that helps!


#19

I didn’t say parrying was the ultimate solution, but if she’s whoring moves you’ll end up doing that. General advise would be that all moves that can be done after crouching mediums can be parried high(her sweep, HP, HK, name it…)

Attacks that work after parrying c.MK are all attacks that execture in less then 6 frames(3 frame parry advantage, 3 frame SA2 startup). So all MPs will hit, while the MKs don’t. If you attempting target combo while SA hets activated you might need to reinput the HP due to buffer freeze.