Kens counter game

ken

#1

I’m having the hardest time using some of his counter game effectively. For the most part, im usually fighting a dudley or chun and it seems like they counter way better than ken. The only real time I actually land c.mp on counter is if I notice a zone\rush pattern. Im pretty solid at baiting normals and punishing with c.mk super but my homies are catching on and they’re starting to parry punish those now. Its getting to the point where throwing out my c.mk is getting risky. That pretty much means that I used that shit way to much. I’m amazed that they’re even attempting this because its risky as fuck. I tried switching up my timing on it but its just so slow. Ill time it slower and theyll counter me with something big. I guess that startegy renders the c.mk useless in that scenario. They stay close enough sometimes for c.mk to be useless and short short is too far. They’re in the perfect range for the c.mp though and I can never seem to get it. Whenever I lose my zoning abilities I seem to fall apart. I tried blocking and getting away from the + frame rush down but that will only work midscreen and if you block that long its only a matter of time before youll get mixed up or thrown.

I’ve been trying to work in his c.mp counter for a while and everytime I go for it I get countered. I’ve tried c.jab\c.short for + frames on block then c.mp for counter. I know those moves dont give you alot of + frames but it should be enough for c.mp to win right? will it counter lows? I used to use c.mp for + frames on block and another for counter but theyre not following for that one anymore.

Probably some counter pointers or a few counter setups could help me out. When should I really use my c.mp for counter? How good is the priority on it? is there a point during the move where the priority is better? Whenever I try it I feel like I’m fishing for it.

I like to use my c.mk against those characters because It can win against most of their zone. My homies figured it out so I gotta add this to it now.


#2

damn kid, you’re new at ken are you?
shit, i remember i used to be just like you.

anyway. ken is very versitile lemme tell you that shit right now.
ken is alot more than setting up frame advantages, for cmp to work, or staying out baiting cmks. but you problay knew that.

I dont even know where to begin man, theres so much with ken. ken is a thinking character, honestly. look, just watch match videos. look at differnt ken players, and try to understand, what they are doing, why, and whatnot. always read between the lines. thats how i learned. i played matches and i watch vids.
i got 2 full 70 page notepads dedicated to all my observations on ken alone.


#3

dasiatic: post that notepad shit!!!

Vs Chun its very risky trying to put out c.mp while SHE is attacking… Usually I go for uoh for some spacing and tryingto see what she does, and eventually sticking out c.mp or go for a crossup…

Vs dudley its different yea… Instead of trying to poke low every time, I like to use s.mp at times where c.mp can be used as well… s.mp beats alot of his moves especially c.hk pluys you can link it into super…

Ken’s c.mp can be one helluva poke, but people dont realise its easily countered high/low parryable, whatever. But the primary thing you need to learn is NOT sticking out pokes everytime you THINK you have him, because you get into a pattern real quickly (lets say mp,hp is blocked, people tend to sweep just to keep the pressure going). The best thing is to learn to put it BETWEEN someone’s poke or when they think to throw and you’re just out of range (c.mk xx srk is also good at that point, but option select can hit your c.mk sometimes)


#4

ah, yes. that c.mkxxSRK is one fuck of a move on wakeup. bait the tech-throw, and BAM…BAM…and an extra BAM is possible if you’re good enough to pull that shit off.
anyway, generaly speaking, try and be random with the c.mp. chances are you’re gonna hit someone while they doing something. like in a close range footise game, pulling out c.mp at times can intrurupt what your opponent was trying to do.

c.mk is still a good poke that goes into a sa3, dont get discouraged. you just have to be more careful when you’re pulling it out. i dont want to say too much.

whiffing s.mps and c.mps are very good for space control.
ken’s EX hadouken is a good poke in itself. good for footsies. only throw it when you are in a mid-range footise game. thats like somewhere in shoto c.mk range
the EX hadouken is kinda hard to use though, very limited. but good to keep in mind anyway.

there, thats some baby shit for you to look at.

my notebook? lol. I’ll do it someday. but everyone is gonna hate me.


#5

Can somebody tell me who won in 2k3,2k4,and 2k5? Thx.


#6

If they keep parrying you low… why don’t you stop going low and just roundhouse them? I mean, they parry a c.mk because they’re predicting it, right? It can’t be a reaction every time. So use that expectation against them, and start throwing roundhouses at them when they try it. That should put the fear of parrying back into them (eating one or two should crush their spirit a little) and have them blocking you again. Mix as necessary from there. You just need to be aware of the moments when you’re likely to attempt a c.mk (and more importantly, when you’re opponent thinks you’re likely to do it), and then smack 'em.

Am I off my rocker here, or is this way simpler than people are making it seem?


#7

Backdash. There you go, you’ve got proper spacing again.


#8

I don’t think you really want spacing against Chun-Li, but hey, that’s just me:P


#9

If it’s a neutral situation then yes, you do want spacing against Chun. You’re not going to be rushing Chun down in that situation and if you’re inside mid-range but not up close, you’re not going to be threatening Chun with much.

It’s the difference between her beating all your stuff out to begin with or having to punish things on reaction/block. At around just outside Chun’s c.forward range, it’s really hard to SA2 through an EX fireball on reaction unless you are expecting it and looking for it. If you can whiff punish her c.forward, all the better.

Pretty much you’re not going to be rushing Chun down until you score a knockdown, but inside Chun’s c.forward range up till Ken’s throw range, what the hell are you going to do to knock her down that doesn’t get beat out by Chun’s moves and give her a setup/combo?
So unless your idea of a good anti-Chun strategy is to random uppercut in that range, creating space is a decent idea.


#10

How about ignoring the c.MK and simply rushing her down? Like you said, Ken is good up close, if you’re at mid-range you might aswell push a bit for close range rather then having to start all over again. If you feel asif she’s gonna use c.MK, you can simply jump or use UOH. She has a lot more to be more carefull of then her c.MK into super. To be more exact: everything she has mid-long range will beat out any normal that any other character has. So, backdashing gets you into a place where she has more advantage over Ken then she does when Ken is midrange getting to close range. Ken doesn’t require himself to be standing in throw range, he needs to be standing in such a way his chains can do the job and force things out of the Chun-Li that he can punish.


#11

Chun c.jab interrupts everything you do especially if you’re dashing up. And if you’re walking or dashing forward, random c.forward XX SA2, you’re down half life and your momentum is gone. You can’t ignore half-life on a move that will hit you out of almost everything.
Random jumping is really bad, too. Especially at that range, where Chun gets a free parry -> close s.RH on you. Or walk under, c.forward.
But I guess Chun’s s.fierce beats everything even on whiff, huh? Try having even a basic footsie game. Here’s a hint- s.fierce is really easy to punish on whiff. Also really easy to stuff preemptively with EX fireballs. Also if you stand outside of Chun’s c.forward range, you can randomly tap forward here and there to parry if you think she’s going to poke. Also if you hit s.RH and it’s already extended then she’s not going to beat it with s.fierce.

Play against Chun-lis who don’t suck and see how well you do “ignoring” her c.forward when she has meter.

Ken has to play this matchup intelligently and with patience. Rushing things tends to lead to eating supers and losing. Smart play wins this fight far more consistently than trying to force things when you don’t have to.

Topic:
Best time to use c.strong is to preempt pokes from up close. Also decent off a parry 'cuz it’s easy to hit the super afterwards. Don’t use it much in pressure though, use it to fish for hits.
Staying collected is the most important thing with Ken. Pokes aren’t your only way of maintaining control, nor are they your only means of regaining momentum.


#12

Now I soooo wanna rip that Deshiken vs AFM out of the Coop Cup and add your silly comments about not rushing down. But I’m too lazy to do it.

Can you quote the sentence where I said “random jumping”? I said that if you anticipate the c.MK, you can jump, if she did a c.MK, you take half her life away with 2/3s of the meter she needs to do the same to you. Her c.LP can beat a lot, if it didn’t get parried. Heck it even can be ignored and she still won’t be able to do shit. Like I said, the c.MK XX SA2 is the least of your worries, as a matter of fact: obey the treath the super presents and you will lose.


#13

if they have started parrying & punishing your c.mk, and they are predictible enough…just c.mk > SA3 as always,
once they parry the c.mk, the “punishing” animation will have barely started when ur super comes out :rofl:


#14

I wouldn’t wanna test that out when I only have 3 rounds at my disposal:P Intelligent players will block after c.MK anyways, because most players can’t hitpredict or hitconfirm it(DooM promised he’d convince me pretty soon, so I’ll leave this option open for now:P); even with hitpredicting that super is likely to come out. If you however have doubts about the intelligence of your opponent, you can cancel to LPsrk if up close and then karasrk if it’s available.

c.MP on the other hands… create a pretty good guessing game. It’s hitconfirmable, so on parry players are pretty likely to not cancel into super. This is where people would expect free punishment, but then using SA3 will scare them a bit:) With this normal, hitting the opponent is pretty much all about the feel. If you feel like he got a lucky parry there, he’s likely to block, if he set you up for that parry, he’s likely willing to make it worth his while.


#15

Well, against Chun You don’t want to be predictable. So I’ll tell you straight out that you have to really think several mixups ahead before you even do the one you’re doing at the moment.

If you become predictable, thats your fault because Ken has the most effective mixups both for hit confirm and rush down and I’d say that you need to reinvent yourself if you became predictable.

You ever thought of doing nothing and just throw on wakeup? Pump a few shorts at the start of their wakeup to get them to guess parry.

You ever thought of short, short, wait, parry low, c.mp confirm?

You ever thought of short, short, short, roundhouse?

You ever thought of Dashback on wakeup, UOH…into whatever else you think might work?

I’d say that for me at least, Dudley is Ken’s hardest matchup. Dudley can punish really bad and his mixup game is really good.

Best thing I can say against him is. You got better footsies so use it but don’t let him measure a jump in on you. Those turn out pretty nasty.

I really don’t know what else to tell you. I can tell you use this or this mixup but I don’t know what exactly you’re dealing with.

Ken is an extremly observent character. It requires a TON of patience. If your opp is blocking or trying to parry you all day long, start throwing alot, and use a dash back throw fakeout. If they start to tech all your throws, start poking.

You’d be suprised at the ammounts of things you can bait out. Like, make it look pretty obvious that you’re looking for a down parry and parry the far fierce for the punish.

Stuff like that, I mean it just takes alot of experiance and practice. Thats all I can tell you. Just watch some videos and try to understand why. Some good ken’s out there like 5 Star or Joe le. Good luck