Ken's safe jumping list?

ken

#1

Since Ken’s downfal in power and popularity It’s difficult to find decent tutorials for the char. Ken needs to keep the pressure after a knockdown, but what are his safe jumps? I’d like to know his setups for different chars after DP, throw, sweep. Also I can’t time my air tatsus to disrupt reversal DPing =(

Please, share your knowledge, guys.


#2

After a dp an immediate j.lk is a safe jump on a good amount of reversals. An immediate fake thunder kick into cr.lk is a good meaty option to continue pressure while grounded. Mix in some actual overheads there to keep them on their toes. After a throw you can take a step back and whiff a mp and jump in ambiguous cross up or non cross mk or hp. You can also follow up with a lk tatsu to cross up a non cross up ranges or beat reversal dps.


#3

There’s a comprehensive video on unblockables somewhere, I’m more interested in true safe jumps or setups that make reversals wiff.

As far as I know, jumping after a DP is safe vs some characters only.


#4

Throw, feint, n.j.mp


#5

Guess I’ll be posting here myself then. dooki87 posted it in AE matchups against Sagat. It all still works in v2012, though I couldn’t crossup-noncrossup after f.throw - cr.Rh setup (Sagat’s DPs wiff ok).


USF4 Ken Match-up Thread: Updating 1st Post Edition!
#6

Here on 2:18 and 2:51 marks KichijyojiKEN shows a setup on Rose. After f.throw walk back slightly, wate half a sec, jump short. It’s not seen in the vid but I’ve checked: this setup counter hit crosses up Rose’s EX Spiral and catches her backdash midair - most popular options. Loses to her EX Dp move though.

youtube.com/watch?v=ocaD4mWXILc#t=138


#7

Throw, whiff throw, nj. MK to beat 3f reversals. I actually remember Laugh’s Ryu doing this at last years Evo against Momochi’s Ken. I’m surprised I don’t ever see anyone go for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhRpcCUhUi4


#8

After loosing to buttspaming Honda a couple times I’ve come up with these for the sumo fat ass:

  • f.throw, half step back, half sec wait, j.LK (OS cl.HK beats EX Headbutt from behind and closes on wiffed light Buttslam)
  • f.throw, FTK, j.mk OS cr.HP (trades with medium Buttslam, beats the other ones; beats Headbutts; loses to U1???)

Forgot to mention that aforementioned f.throw - cr.Rh - jump setup works on Boxer, and wtih j.mk on Blanka too. Ther reversals wiff, with correct OSes they’re basically helpless. Again thanks to dooki87

QUESTION: Is it possible to safejump-block/OS slow reversals, like Roses EX Spiral. My grounded normals after usual setups loose to such moves.


#9

If you do a meaty cr.mp on her wake up she has no options. It will stuff her escape and it will recover in time to block ex spiral


#10

I’ll be more specific. OSed cr.RH gets her backdash but always looses to EX reversal. Is my timing wrong or cr.RH OS simply doesn’t work with slow reversal chars?


#11

Well her move is invincible so it is going to beat out a normal os


#12

Against a large portion of the cast, forward throw, immediate backdash, immediate jump in attack/empty jump is as close as Ken gets to a universal safe jump set up. You can mash the backdash during the throw animation to have it come out on the first frame every time and you can hold up forward during the dash frames to get the immediate jump in.

The empty jump setup works against some 4 frame reversals and almost all 5 frame reversals.

And with the exact same timing, you can jump and attack for a safe jump against all 6 frame reversals and upwards.

This setup allows you to OS almost with no fear whatsoever. You can add ambiguity to your mix up by using an EX tatsu to cross up. It’s pretty much safe against all reversal DP attempts but it gets beaten by delayed DP’s, but then a delayed DP gets beaten by the original meaty safe jump, so its a strong guessing game for Ken.

For characters with 3 frame reversals (and certain characters with 4 frame reversals) neither the empty jump or safe jump will work, but you can still do a tatsu to avoid DP’s. If you get the timing right, you can cross up with an early air rh tatsu in the same way as you can with an EX tatsu, saving you meter if you think they are going to try the reversal…

Outside this, almost all of Ken’s safe jumps require manual timing to perform. The “slight step back, whiff a normal, jump in” is extremely common knowledge in the Ken community which probably explains why you don’t see any tutorials on it. But online, these setups are nowhere near as guaranteed as they seem in the training room. I practiced the timing for safe jumping in on Ryu for over an hour the other day, took it online and got reversal DP’ed over and over and over again…

Hope this helps a bit.

Peace,

G.


#13

Thanks a lot, G77. Didn’t know you could buffer a backdash =)

What are those “certain” 4 frame reversal characters?

This is exactly what bothered me. How many steps back? What wiffed normal? What chars does it work on? There’re no video/thread to list all those details… Though now, after experimenting myself for some time, I’m starting to get a general feel for it. Is it the most I can get for these setups - “a general feel”?


#14

Pretty much. Depending on the character and their reversal trajectory/speed, you’ll find yourself using different steps back and different normals. There really is no universal setup. Its also really pointless to say, “step back for exactly 6 frames” because who can do that!?!

Oh, and you’re not really buffering the backdash, but mashing it seems to give you the perfect timing easily.

Just experiment with the 4 frame reversal people. It works against Ken but not Guy. It works against Sagat but not against Deejay. You need to learn the match up specifics.

Here is another set up from a forward throw,

Forward throw, immediate FTK, immediate neutral jump mk/mp.

This works on almost every single 4 frame reversal and you can empty jump to use it against 3 frame reversals. You can OS a sweep to keep most of the cast honest (Rose, Balrog and a few others can backdash safely). There are 1 or 2 characters who, because they wake up slower, will not rise in time to get put in block stun by the jump attack but, off the top of my head, its only Blanka, Sagat and Cammy?

Try it out. Hope this helps!!

Peace,

G.


#15

Anyone have any 5 frame safe cross ups after forward throw? Been playing Ken a little while now (because what better time to learn a character than a month before a new re-haul, amirite?) and the biggest problem I’m dealing with is his set ups seem to be easy to autocorrect DP by most characters (Especially Cammy) The one against Sagat mentioned earlier is very good, but I just can’t beat other DPs with a correct cross up. Does he have a setup similar to the Sagat setup where he can make the DP go under him? At least for Cammy anyway, she’s the most annoying as usual lol


#16

You can’t really cover all her options in one setup. You have to make some reads. If Rose has no meter, OS the backdash with a sweep. If she has the meter, you need to respect the EX drill. But bear in mind, it’s completely unsafe and just blocking it gives you a full punish. Even with all the hard work in the world, her focus backdash beats pretty much everything!!

Peace,

G.


#17

Cammy’s wake up is slower then normal. Here some setups from the matchup forum - haven’t tried them myself.

And again another gem from dooki87! Glimpsed his channel - subscribed after 5 vids =)

[media=youtube]N3dk7NUZYgc[/media]

Exept for cr.MP xx Tatsu = godlike read :wink:


#18

Thanks again.
Also, after messing around a bit more, I found that you can do forward throw> step back> whiff ST. or CR.MP and jump in fierce and will cause her DP to go under if she reversals. You can also make the fierce cross her up. The problem is getting the exact distance and timing for the step back, set ups like that are so annoying to get down though lol