j.hp > hk > BCC > Super is 508 and 570, but considering the amount of hits in the combo and the beauty of scaling You don’t actually lose a lot of damge by missing the j.hp at the beginning.
Hm J.HK St.HP LP hozanto does 530, just option. TC actually does less which is dumb.
All this grinding before Evo. I guess I’m back too. :tup:
run slide, forward dash, lp.flip elbow works vs all Decapre’s non ex dp’s (some whiff some get beaten). If she uses DWU she auto corrects the wrong way so all her dp’s will whiff. It does require some timing for you to make her DWU dp’s whiff, check training mode.
So, I think I found a pretty great option select that makes Ultra 2 quite a bit better.
Ex Run> Stop> hcbX2 + LP+LK~3P
If you do it right, you’ll do a throw right out of the run stop… unless they hit you during the armour portion of the run stop, in which case you’ll do an Ultra 2 instead. So it they jab you during the stop, they’ll get grabbed by U2.
This works because the armour absorption frames will eat your LP+LK input, and result in Ultra 2 coming out instead. If the armour doesn’t absorb anything, the throw will come out instead of the ultra.
Execution on this is a little tight (if your inputs aren’t precise, you’ll get a Light Tatsu instead of a throw)., but its definitely a consistent option select if you execute it on point (mashing 3P an extra time actually helps).
I don’t think it’s an armour cancel, but it pretty much functions like one.
Are you supposed to press lp+lk during the HCB motions or immediately after? I don’t see how you ever get a throw instead of a lk.Tatsu.
As long as you don’t plink the lp+lk or press it too early (while your joystick is at db), you should get a throw
Guile is a little easier now. Blocking sonic booms and walking forward is an improved approach, and if in closer ranges Guile throws something right after Sonic Boom such as backfist, cr LK will beat him
Also does anyone else feel like Guile’s cr HP hitbox has expanded horizontally?
I have no real response to a legit Elena.
What exactly do we have that she can’t crouch or focus through? And I mean classic 2 hit focus. Even her slide kick is positive from point blank range.
Her slide is -10 from point blank, has 10 active frames so its at best 0, it just has a long blockstun similar to guy’s runslide.
The potential for it to be -3 to 0 explains back dashes, but I’m block this in CQC and mashing cr.lk and getting counter hit by her normal or grabbed. I saved a match where I practically scrubbed out mashing lk in this manner and she beat me to the punch… or kick I guess.
I must admit, I have had exactly the same problem with her slide. It could just be an online issue? It feels like sometimes whatever range she hits you from, you get locked in ridiculous block stun and she always seems to recover first. She’s an incredibly annoying matchup.
Don’t know if this has been found but meaty focus on Elenas wakeup, whilst she is in corner, dash forward is one of those teleport through dashes.
And Elena matchup, she can’t really frame trap so you can Cr.LK free most of the time, also she has terrible anti airs that either trade for 60-70 damage or at most 100. I think elbow drop might whiff when she crouches though?? Her Normals are pretty good at footsie range but they can’t be safely buffered as spin scythe is punishable on block as is Mallet, and if spin scythe combos from a buffer it will probably whiff on the second or third hit. Elena lol.
Her :f:+:mk: overhead and :df:+:hk: slide are the only tools she needs in the Guy match up. That and Focus Spamming.
It’s not that she’ll definitely get a hit on you as Guy, you’re just not punishing her. I’ve been in training mode for about 30 mins now, practising against her slide and overhead I described above. The slide can be punish by a cl.hk… sometimes. TC seems to work best, but as nebbiez described, I can sometime punish her on block when there’s distance between us (i.e. she’s not hitting on the first active frame, meaning she gets more time to recover before I get out of block stun and punish her ass) yet other times, I have the turbo button on, and she’s blocking the mp from my TC. It’s like the game locks you out for longer than usually if you attempt to press a button too early or there’s something buggy about the block stun. Her overhead is completely safe on block from Guy, even from the first frame bar a throw, and with Guy’s current walk speed and the fact the over head needs to be blocked high, if you press too pre-emptively, you end up walking out of range of a throw. And also keep in mind this is an overhead soo… meaty on your wake up. You can block/counter a special or secondary normal if she makes one but she doesn’t have to, and I wouldn’t. I can understand why a defensive fortress style player like Justin Wong would appeal to Elena. If this is what her match ups are like across the board, it’s very easy to lame out on chip damage.
FYI her overhead can also beat lk.BSK if your commit before she does.
The game also doesn’t exactly promote mashing a normal so even turbo won’t get the frame perfect punish all the time, really you have to know when you are out of blockstun and plink your punish, as well as know if you can punish it or not from when you blocked the move, A lot of elenas move are punishable, but her hurtbox is aiding her a lot. In most cases I just go for grab punishes if she is close… its better than nothing.
Proper turbo should register 60 inputs per second, so the move comes out on the first possible frame after block stun ends. Whether or not this is what actually happens or not, I’m not sure!
It is better than nothing, it’s just frustrating when you are in play that is being bottle-necked and there’s no good option. When someone is playing to a flow or a strict routine, knowing the routing should be enough to beat it. I’m unnerved at the idea Elena players can essentially loop a sequence of inputs and it can’t be punished at any point in the loop with consistency.
Personally, the move I would look to is bushin Flip - to increase the input opportunity time be able to grab at any point on the descent of the flip’s arc so long as Guy is off the ground; the EX version to track faster reach the opponent in less frames and for an empty bushin flip to recover faster upon landing. These buffs would give you the option to reset the neutral game in particular hard to guess loops. It would also make BFlip>grab a go-to tech against Focus, where as right now it has a tendency to be an empty jump if you press :p: while faling in front of the opponent rather than on top.
Empty flip has the same recovery on landing as the flip elbow which is 8
I know. I think it should have less. I use empty flip HP to bait aa’s as I’ve said before. It’s still floaty, but it moves so rapidly in horizontal space it passes opponents before they know it. Akuma can press buttons during his demon flip an recover quicker. I think an empty jump should offer better recovery than pressing buttons for the elbow or grab. 4 frames would be dope. I think that would be enough to flip over an aa that thought you were making a normal jump and be able to block the next button they mash when they realised you’re in bushin flip. This would be awesome against charge characters.
Thing is recovery was already buffed to 8, beforehand it was in the teens.