Tier List dictated by the opinions of Daigo, Bonchan, Momochi, Tokido, Kazunoko and Itazan. Granted It’s not official, but it seemed like a valid discussion point about how comfortably they dumped Guy in C-Tier. None of these players main Guy but they all had experience with the 2-Frame reversal G(od)uy in the USF4 arcades. Considering the hype put into him back then and how low they rank him now, to me they’ve done so with a considerable level of thought and awareness of the Bushin-Ryu specialist. I think the previous high marks the arcade version of Guy picked up pushed more people generally to review the match up. Personally of noticed how certain tricks don’t tend to work any more, like TC>lp.bushin flip to grab people who stand. I know that out of Bushin Flip, there’s actually no reason for the opponent to start, but the natural instinct seeing that flip is that some how Guy can overhead you, so you stand to block. Wizen to the match up, and you don’t stand up any more, don’t give 180 free damage and a KD any more.
You’re missing a point there, most of this tierlist is apparently on several points that I will get to later. Onto Guy: People have options to get out of pressure, crouching blocking everything until Guy pushes himself away is meaningless simply because his walkspeed, run stop recovery and TC buff prevent that, you’ll be pushed to the corner and have to react block the run overhead if you don’t have a low profile move. Jumping away is viable if you know they are going to do runstop, stand blocking is viable especially if your character has a fast walkspeed because you will have walked out of the range of Guy’s pressure as well block Run-overhead preemptively but will fall victim to run slide, with a possibility of being grabbed by lp bushin flip. Backdashing is viable only if you know that will do runstop and maybe bushin flip depending on distance.
If they continue to block you’re just giving Guy freewill to pull you to corner you can go for risky options but they can baited and may risk your meter.
Guy’s presence even in Japan is very small compared to characters in the upper region. This is the issue with tier lists, I personally don’t even agree with Guy’s placing. Especially with the differences in the US and Japan tier list and character matchup charts we’ve all seen. These are all based on their opinions and folks not wanting to go in-depth by a character. Most of the tierlists from the look of it are going by, damage output, pressure, ease of use and learning curve.You’ll notice the S and A characters all retain their vortex/pressure options with little issue. Which all hits will lead to big damage or the same mixups that work all around. Guy doesn’t have a vortex but owns a large damage output and great pressure but it not all options for damage lead into to the same options as they would with Yun and co. Plus the #1 Guy on XBL got 4th at a tournament… tier lists aint shit
If you read the interview they explain that B and C tier characters are very competitive IF it wasn’t for Yun. C tier looks a bit dramatic but they actually think C tier characters are viable now. But yeah just because these are the SF gods doesn’t mean they know everything about Guy, I would also place him in B.
*Momochi: In version 1.01, although Guy’s whirlwind kick has been returned to 4 frames startup, he is still quite strong right?
Daigo: Yeah, if you ignore version 1.00, Ultra is the strongest that Guy has ever been. There aren’t many characters with such high damage output in the neutral game midscreen. *
I missed that one, which tournament?
The implication is that Umehara et al seem to believe that Yun dominates Guy.
I’m not convinced that’s the case at all.
Hey guys, could I get some advice fighting against Guy. I don’t what to do against his offense. Its mainly the run overhead which i have trouble reacting to and stand blocking. Even when I block its hard to punish because of the pushback and while i’m focused on trying to react to that I feel free to run stop which i think is neutral or something and his 3 frame light which seems to be 1 of the longest in the game.
who do you play as, and TC Runstop is -1, he’ll never be at 0.
The thing is, these guys are talking about play at the highest level. If any one of us was to play Kazunoko’s Yun, we would most likely be used as a mop to sweep the floor. Without completely guessing, Guy has no way of getting Yun off him when he starts his relentless pressure up close. The only hope you really have is to try and keep him away from you in the first place by immediately poking his advances and anti-airing his divekicks. But once he is in there, which is almost inevitable if you’re playing a competent Yun, you have no FADCable reversal, EX run slide/stop is very unreliable, red focus can easily be broken…it’s a nightmare.
My usual tactic with Yuns is to beat them at their own game and try to get in on that ass and pressure them relentlessly because he can’t FADC upkicks either. But against a player with the knowledge and reactions of Kazunoko, I think this strategy would get you killed very quickly. You can basically cr. block Guy’s pressure all day and react to flips or run overheads with upkicks.
Against your average player on Xbox Live or whatever, sure these tier lists don’t mean shit. This is what people on Ehubs don’t seem to understand. They cry about this tier list and say the Japanese don’t know what they’re talking about. But the fact is that the higher tier characters are generally both strong in themselves, and have very few bad matchups. As Daigo says about Guy, in and of himself he isn’t a bad character and has some decent damage output. But his ability to beat the higher tier characters and his numerous bad matchups at high level are what drag him down.
I’m with Nebbz on this. I look at tier listings with only competitive high level in mind. Saying they don’t mean shit to the majority of play is dumb.
You could just as well make the argument that all match ups are in Guy’s favour as all you have to do is play someone who doesn’t know their own character well…
You can ‘safe block’ or ‘option block’ against all of Guy’s run-"____" attacks but holding :db: and switching to at a precise moment and pressing :lp:. Run-Slide will always hit before run-overhead: you time your press to be after run slide would have hit (so you’re be in block stun if it was a run slide) and before Overhead would have hit (so you’re not crouching it is was the overhead). :lp: is there to start punishing a Run-stop fake that got too close. Even if the opponent isn’t close, he won’t be punishing that singular st.:lp:
That’s more general advise though. Guy players will likely be mixing this moves about with general pressure and throws. I would hone your reactions though. There’s nothing Guy has that an experienced player cannot react to but you have to exhibit the patience to be watching and waiting to react.
[quote=“Guerilla_Tech, post:1671, topic:105205”]
Yeah I came to the conclusion I basically need to hone my reactions. I might try the fuzzy block though. Thanks
My pleasure telling you how to beat me XD
Once I see someone block that way, I start delaying my mk and let Guy run a bit before the slide. OS block defeated.
I just tried out some very obscure tech in a match.
j.HP/j.HK>cl.st.HK>TC>RFC>Immediate Focus Attack >/> U2
After the RFC, dash forward and tap mp+mp and you will have a very small window to hit the opponent before they are kneeling and will be standing as you hit them. Everything up to the immediate Focus Attack is 339 Damage and the U2 hits on a reset so the damage is unscaled, whatever it is. I had a near maxed U2 ultra bar, so I got near enough an extra 500 damage, 800 in total on a Dudley.
I think it more or less mind fucked him when all that health disappeared when he would have otherwise had the match won. It’s situational as hell, requiring the use of 3 ex bars, ultra meter and the need for your opponent to get grabbed by the sudden Ultra but it’s so random I think most people will react to it the way my opponent did, seeing that you Focus attack after a red focus and thinking it’s a mis-press and upon seeing you dash forward they throw out a normal to stop you. Seeing as I was at death’s door it prays on the fact your opponent won’t do anything risky (like mash DP or some other grab invincible special) while they have a measurable life lead, you can still take the chip and have ultra blinking. So they poke you kn the basis you probably come out of the FA dash after they do, which you do… only to grab them with Ultra anyway. Naturally this also works with U1, it’s just the whole “500 reset damage in a one-frame-ultra-grab” thing about U2 which makes it more poignant to use.
I’ve been sitting on it for a while since I didn’t have the mentality mid game to screen for opportunities to try it out. Naturally, this works out of any combo with a TC in it. Situational as hell, but hella tricky.
Just on the ex bushin flip recovery, been playing a lot of decapre, my guy has suffered a bit to be honest but anyways her ex scramble mp stop is invincible for its entirety and has 0 frames recovery. Its delicious and had me thinking how a 0 frame recovery ex bushib would be beyond tasty. Never going to happen but those moves are there so under 8 frames could happen… Yeah.
Loving delayed wakeup as a player who never really ‘got’ or relied on option selects. I tend to make up setups on the fly and only ever used either when it really mattered or just couldn’t break a defence. Need to strap on those sneakers soon. Miss the friendly Guy folks round these parts.
Also have no online time so if you see the GT: JohnEsea its me… In disguise as my housemate. Wuh ha ha ha. Don’t get any respect with low pp/bp though, it’s strange how that affects the other player, sometimes in a massive way. Playing a guy I’ve played a thousand times before yet he was trying wakeup dp, walk up throw, air tatsus you name it. Learned him good :v
Does anybody have any good shortcut inputs for armor cancel ultra 2?
I used to labbed this extensively a few years back, but I lost all my notes. IIRC, the most consistent input I could find was
- 6321236+KK,3214+PPP+LK (so that you get run-stop if the opponent doesn’t trigger the ultra)
The problem was that although It’s consistent IF YOU DON’T MESS UP, It’s an input that’s obviously very easy to mess up.
Another, much easier input that I found, somehow doesn’t work consistently-
Sometimes the KK gives you Ex Run, and sometimes it gives you ex bsk.
I’ve been having a lot of fun trying to incorporate U2 into my game in general. Any lab monsters who’ve found other inputs?
HBC, QCF KK HCB PPP, normally the method I ever used but I don’t bother with Armor U2. I’d rather go for the Ultra. Cause if they do a normal and have the ability to cancel into an invincible move then welp…
HBC= typo for HCB?
IIRC, canceling into an invincible move after the ultra flash doesn’t work. They need to buffer the move input before the ultra flash.
It does work they just have exactly 1 frame to get the cancel.