Is Urien #2? I have seen no tierlist. Srry
A couple of things that have been working out well for me:
Cr.mk (blocked) st.mp xx fireball. It’s a decent frame trap and pretty safe on block.
And my aegis game has really stepped up because now I confirm into with cr.mp xx ex fireball (confirm the hit into v trigger) you lose a meter this way but it can still be confirmed via st.mp,cr.mp or you can wiff buffer the cr.mp and still confirm… this allows me not to get v trigger blocked unless I absolutely have to and since this usually comes from aegis one I get good mixups on hit if I have another meter for cr.hp xx ex upball dash FMP.
Also, the best jumpin blockstrings strategy with urien seems to be jumpin hk or hp:
Autopilot either st.lp or st.mp.
If the jumpin hit this will give you more than enough time to confirm the st.lp into target combo xx hk tackle.
If the st.mp hit then link it into cr.mp xx hk tackle
Off of a crossup do cr.lp and confirm into target combo if the j.lk hit. These all leave urien with pressure options on block.
Does Urien have a bad matchup?
I hear most say Guile is his hardest higher tier matchup. He doesn’t have great anti Sonic Boom options and he can’t out war Guile’s boom game. Booms don’t give him much space to safely charge his V Skill either. Vs most other characters he usually has a special he can perform to suddenly disrespect the opponent. All of the stuff that Urien can do to suddenly get in gets stuffed by booms or flash kick AA.
Laura will get worse for him over time as his defensive options aren’t great and only having 4 frame buttons vs Laura means you eat shit all day once she’s in. In general a slow, down charge based reversal isn’t what you want vs a character that can sneak in a command grab or overhead into frame advantage once you’ve committed to blocking (because you have to) even slightly too long. Having a scary overhead means she can force him to stand to stop charging the reversal also (if not then he gets bopped over the head and comboed if she’s in V Trigger).
There’s probably other matches that will get tougher for him over time, but generally the character is solid enough and has enough comeback potential that his tougher matchups shouldn’t get too tough.
zangief, fang, karin, guile, rashid I would say
For me his bad matchups are Karin vega dictator cammy maybe rashid. Guile can be tough as can Nash sometimes and a good fireballing ryu. He owns gief though. Laura is probably in his favor as well.
He does bad against mobile characters and characters that have good fireballs.
cr. hp xx lp headbutt xx cr. hp
can anybody clue me in on the timing to land the 2nd cr. hp here? It’d be appreciated
edit: Nevermind, found what I needed, now just need to practice it.
So my urien recently took a huge step forward. I’m still very bad in certain matchups, but against a player willing to play footsies I feel like I’ve got a decent handle.
First uriens offense which I gained from watching punks games with both Karin and urien.
Start with this blockstring:
St.mp,cr.mp (st.hp) the st.hp is optional.
If the st.mp or cr.mp hits, confirm into the appropriate combo. If the entire string is blocked, then next time do st.mp walk, forward st.mp. Confirm if it hits. This is the basic offense in a nutshell. The opponent is forced to guess if you will stagger or not. If they guess that you will stagger then that means they will try to stop you via jab usually. But your cr.mp will CH them and you can confirm into another cr.mp xx hk tackle, or confirm into st.lk xx ex tackle.
When you stagger, use this next string as it seems to have a high conversion rate once people are conditioned by the previous string:
St.mp, walk forward, st.mp, cr.mp. There is only one stagger in here. If the opponent blocks this then next time go for st.mp walk forward throw. This works once the opponent has chosen to just block. Mix that up with stagger and shimmy as appropriate.
Now, that’s the punk offense and holy shit does it work well. But I added in my own options to keep the opponent guessing because that offense starts to lose some power as the opponent gets used to your stagger timing and whatnot. So I added in these options:
1.Cr.light>throw this works when the opponent feels like a medium stagger or tight frame trap is coming.
2. Whatever into fmp mixups. What I like to do is show my opponent the entire target combo till they block and punish or not. Then, once I get them blocking high I do fmp into throw. Shit works like a charm if you make sure they don’t know when the st.mp will come (and they won’t if you are doing the other 2 string mixups I mentioned)
Another string I use quite a bit is for when I have v trigger:
Light> walk back or forward, cr.mk x v trigger. This catches people trying to walk out of uriens v trigger all the time. It also catches whiffed jabs and mediums. This is very good.
Ok, so that’s my upclose offense. My neutral goes like this:
Use L fireball prodigiously in matchups where the opponents primary way of dealing with fireballs is to jump them. Once you know your opponent is looking for a jump, throw h fireball. If they bite you get some damage. If they don’t and just stayed on the ground… if you know they are still looking to jump, throw another h fireball. Generally speaking I’ve thrown 3 whiffed fireballs in a row at times. Once the opponent t sees the H fireball, on wiff or on hit, they will be less likely to want to jump against you and after reading opponent tendencies you can rattle off 3-6 L fireballs giving you command of the neutral and setting up your own jumpins or dashins. Urien can be played like a “projectile dhalsim” in this manner. It is pretty strong in the correct matchups like versus ryu as an example.
Once you’ve got fireball game down, it’s not usually enough to win. You still have to get in. Use the fireballs to set up your dashin or footsie game. Footsie game is what it is, but don’t be afraid to get nutty with the st.hp once you’ve set the opponent up with your fireball game. St.mk is also great once the opponent respects the fireball.
How to setup your fireball game:
Dashes and jumps setup your fireball game to a certain extent. Once you start dashing in a lot your opponent will start to get pre emptive with the buttons… that’s when you start making them eat L fireballs. Note that in an extended set you won’t really need to set the fireballs up with footsies because you will know beforehand if your opponent is going to get frisky with the buttons.
After any close ranged blocked jumpin, mixup between a delayed st.mp or an immediate throw. This is one of the better mixups in the game and most characters have it. Confirm the st.mp into a cr.hp since most times the hit in this position will be a CH against a jab or throw tech.
After a jumpin crossup lk, do an immediate cr.lp and confirm the crossup and cr.lp into your target combo xx tackle.
If the opponent blocks the crossup and the cr.lp, you have a decent advantage to do a stagger string/tick throw mixup.
It’s lower damage but of course you can always go low with the cr.lk,cr.lp string into head butt, but your damage suffers and the cr.lk is less advantage on block than the cr.lp.
And that’s pretty much it. It’s pretty straightforward when you think about it.
One caveat is to try not to do your string mixups in an overly obvious fashion. In other words once you’ve done enough tick throws and your opponent is ready for them via teching or jabbing, don’t just go immediately into your shimmy or frame trap next time. Instead try to do your fmp mixup or your stagger mixup… and vice versa.
This makes your offense less easy to read since you will not be giving your opponent easy to acces info on what type of mixup will come. So as an example.
Once they are used to tick throws from cr.lp, start using medium strings, once they are used to medium strings use overhead strings, once they are used to overhead strings go back to tick throws… etc. there is no general rule here as to what string to do besides trying not to do the same exact string mixup twice in a row, unless the opponent hasn’t shown a counter for it. So as an example, use the tick throw or fmp target combo till your opponent starts to jab or tech tick throw, or and do the target combo into overhead till the opponent starts to block it. Once the opponent starts to do either of those things then do a different string. Then once you go back to the strings that you previously trained the opponent on, do the mixup, so as an example you would now go for the target combo into the low confirm or throw. Just don’t do it one after the other because that’s to obvious and you will be guessing whether the opponent t is smart enough or dumb enough o continue to do or not do something many times in a row. It’s better that your strings are mixed up so that the opponent doesn’t know what exact mixup is coming so that it’s always a bit of a surprise.
I forgot one thing that’s very obvious but I would be remiss not to mention it. During the neutral there will be a prodigious amount of walking back and forth just out of uriens st.mk range. This is a dangerous range to constantly be at. While in this range however, if you’ve previously trained the opponent via your fireball and dash game, it will be much easier to AA the opponent. If you find yourself in this range be ready to cr.hp your opponent out of the air, which will be much easier to do if you have a fireball and footsie game rhythm established. Use cr.hp xx fully charged H fireball into HK tackle. This combo does 238 damage, is it’s a great way to get damage and it’s also a great way to deter jumpins and get your offense started. Once you’ve hit the opponent with this a couple of times it’s much more safe to use this as a place to start your L and H fireball game.
If you don’t want to deal with this range yet however, you can just backdash and from there your L fireball will be at a much safer spacing. One habit I have from here is to backdash into immediate L fireball. I take a lot of jumpins early on here. If your opponent sees this then start to do ) fireball instead of L fireball and that will calm them down quick. If both options are unsafe then you can backdash into a crouch fake or wiffed st.lp fake. From there if they don’t take the bait. you can backdash again which will almost certainly be a safe place to L fireball from and get your neutral started.
Dafuq why are the Urien forums more dead than a Twelve thread. Anyway, anyone around can help me? An online Ken exposed a huge weakness of me. While doing the footsies at a range where a fireball could easily be punished by a full jumpin combo, there are some points where an opponent can jump and do an ambiguous crossup that I find too hard to AA with cr. HP (ken’s j. MK is the offender here) and blocking leads to throw hit mixup. It was rather annoying and got me multiple times and makes me not want to play with it at all which is sad because otherwise it would be sweet spot to fish for st. HP CCs. Which can be the best strategy against this in order to condition them to stay on the ground?
The range where your cr.hp will wiff is one that the opponent might start to go for if you show them that you are weak to that spacing. Fortunately there are a bunch of ways to deal with it:
- St.hk AA
- Space him so he can’t easily get to that range (use your fireball and st.mk and st.hk)
- Jump back jab air to air.
The best thing is just st.hk AA. The jump back jab is just if you weren’t ready.
I use st.hk to poke with a lot. It makes lower hitbox moves wiff and will wiffpunish them pretty easily. It can also
hit people that are trying to jump your pokes… so it becomes a really good move to use in general.
It’s also great in block strings where people like to do delayed buttons to cover your dash in, but are to slow to get hit by most frame traps. So I like to use it as an example after something cr.lpx 2 or cr.lp, st.mp… works a treat versus shotos and necalli/stubby button characters where people like to just press random buttons to stop a dash in threat.
Liked him before but his V2 is making me fall in love all over again
Damn all I can get after CC HP is cr.MP…
Opinions on v-trigger 2?
It’s It’s pretty versatile, but not as good as aegis in my opinion. Maybe it’ll get worse with time after people start noticing that it’s -2 and only has armor while charging.
Couldn’t find any decent setups with it, so I’m just using it as footsie tool, ghetto parry/anti-air and as a flinch move (like sf4 focus attack when you hold it just enough and then release when the opponent is trying to jump away).
The only setups I found for fully charged vtrigger 2:
After crush-counter sweep, just hold it.
After hitting a cr.HP, cancel the second hit into vtrigger and just hold it. If they quickrise, they’re toast.
Both get beaten clean by invincible reversals.
Also, after hitting a level 1 vt2, you get some good pressure:
On normal recovery:
- whiff lp headbutt. A st.HP will hit on crush counter on its last frames and will leave you + enough to hit a cr.HP. You can also time a meaty grab after the headbutt.
- mp headbutt, you’ll cross up and st.HP will still crush counter, but you can only hit a cr.MP afterwards. It’s a tight windows against 3-framers. You can also time a meaty grab after the headbutt.
On back recovery:
- lp headbutt, quarrel kick will crush counter.
- mp headbutt, st.HP will hit on crush counter, on its last frames and will leave you + enough to hit a cr.HP. BUT if you do it frame-perfect, you’ll whiff the st.HP if they don’t press anything. You can time a meaty grab after urien finishes his crouching animation
On no recovery:
- mp headbutt, st.HP, st.MP, st.HP. The last st.HP will crush counter on its last frames, again you can cr.HP.
I feel like VT 2 is awesome and overall better than aegis. Yes aegis is the better trigger in a vacuum… but how many rounds do you go without activating because you died before you can activate? That’s a big problem for 3 bars. Not only that, but you have to save up v reversal for that…
And uriens easiest combo from VT1 is 195 damage for no meter.
His VT 2 pop is 218 damage for no meter.
For me I just use it like a buffed aegis. Just hitconfirm into it… or if I’m in a jam and need to make that comeback and it’s already been popped, then I just do some charged mindgames or try to use it’s armor.
But if I’m not in a pinch I don’t use the armor, I just confirm into it. It’s a buffed HK tackle basically… hk tackle does 100 damage, aegis 2 tackle into LK tackle does 153 and very good corner carry.
True, the more I use it, the more I’m starting to think that it’s better than vt1, or at least a very good alternative depending on your playstyle or matchup.
Yeah something I’m really not liking about it liking about it is that the confirm range off of the cr.mk is pitifully small. You can connect st.mk after, but it won’t combo into the V tackle at that range becaus the v tackle hits at later frames.
Basically makes it so that you can only confirm from about half the cr.mk range. That’s a huge issue with this game in general. Use your moves at their correct max spacing and there’s rarely a followup opportunity.
The confirm range alone makes aegis better. Urien is a midrange character so having to get up close in a close matchup is very hard.
I can no longer do the cr.HP, cr.HP forward MP side switch in the corner. Were the collision boxes adjusted so it would no longer happen?
That’s a bummer, losing st HP CC run in combo was already hard. Overall I feel opportunities for get the big damage going are no longer and as such Urien became one of those characters who has to work hard and be in charge of the spacing for all the round with the caveat that a mistake gives to the wrong side of Mixup Land where you have to hold 4f frame traps. Kinda Menat light.
How is cr HP AA? Is it realistic to substitute the previous plan of “fish for a st. HP CC and open the damage vaults” for "fish for cr. HP AA and get the damage going?
I don’t fish for cr.hp AA, I just do it, it’s the only AA I use and it’s the only AA I will ever use unless im somehow forced to do something else. or I have my opponent cornered where it’s more appropriate to st.hk AA because they will be trying to jump over me. Also since the fireball followup is finicky I just do HK tackle after the juggle. If I’m feeling frisky and really need it, I’ll do cr.hp xx ex upball hk tackle.
His st.hp, besides the range nerf on conversion isn’t super nerfed really. Just do dash in cr.mp,cr.lp xx H headbutt or L tackle if you want to combo into super.
They took out his cr.hp xx ex fireball>dash fmp>dash crossup midscreen which is a total bummer. But w/e because it also wasn’t a huge part of his gameplay but I could throw it in every once in awhile just to keep things fresh.