Knockdowns or resets


#1

While both put the opponent in a wakeup situation, what are some of the differences or advantages/disadvantages of using one over the other?


#2

A reset can put you in better position for a mixup and give your opponent less time to think. For example with Ken, if my air ex hurricane kick hits a few times, I like to reset with standing Jab and follow up with a meaty UOH into super At other times, I might just follow up the ex hurricane kick with a SRK.

A knockdown can give you time to dash your opponent’s corpse into the corner or even give you time to charge a few moves for meter.
Also, you have to consider that sometimes a reset is simple the only logical followup possible. If ken does an ex hurricane kick in the air which crosses up, I might just push standing MK for a 1 hit followup. SRK isn’t possible if the air hurricane kick hits too many times, following up with SA3 doesn’t make sense, and not following up at all (which puts your opponent in Knockdown position) means that I missed out on extra damage.

one other factor which aids in your decision would be your opponent’s stun. I find myself resetting every possible moment if i’m using Necro SA3 and the other character is 1/4 or more stunned. If i land a db+fp elbow in the corner (which honestly isnt that hard because necro has many ways of landing it), I much rather jab after the elbow and maybe go into UOH into another SA3 or even hover back and forth to bait a throw so that I can combo another SA3 to punish their throw whiff.

what character are you using? Maybe that will help.

oh yeah, remember that sometimes a reset is the only option you have.


#3

knockdown usually means finishing with the most possible guaranteed damage.

a reset often does a little less guaranteed damage but allows for mixups which in total leads to more damage.

most character will most of the time go for maximum guaranteed damage and thus finish the combo with a knockdown and thus not risking not getting extra damage. depents on character and situation tough.


#4

I get what you’re saying, Randomness but I disagree that most characters will go for maximum guaranteed damage and also that a knockdown usually means finishing with the most possible damage.

More than likely, a knock down is a special move, yes. But special moves don’t mean they deal more damage. A Standing HK after a corner SA1 with Ryu is probably a better finisher than everything else (even tatsu) when you consider both damage scaling and the position it leaves you in. Genei jin finishers which result in F+FP should be finished with a standing FP instead of a dash punch.

Also, since we’re on the subject of damage scaling, “maximum guaranteed damage” when your combo is in the double digits would mean that an extra hit whether it’s a knock down or a reset would deal only a few extra points of damage, if any. It may be of better interest for you to deal 1 less hp damage with a reset in the hopes of starting another combo. The risk vs reward scenario here would mean you are risking 1 less HP dealt to your opponent in order to potentially deal an extra 35. If the reset leaves you in good position and gives your opponent less time to react, the chances of geting that extra 35 would be more in your favour…if you believe.


#5

Damn C Royd, you got real on this topic! haah your avatar looks like our games everytime you knocked me down or reset…hahah good games in vegas dood. With Ken i like to mix it up between the 2, it adds more randomness to the play, and i think its best to keep your opponent on their toes. It really comes down to the character your using when choosing which option is best.


#6

guess your way out of both ftw

lets go guessers!


#7

C Royd, you might very well be right with that most chars more often reset. I was thinking situations like hitting with remys cr/j.hp and Q getting a c&db in corner were you almost always go for max damage instead of reset.


#8

do a reset when you think your oponent expects a knockdown…do a knockdown when you think your oponents expects a reset.

if you do to much of one thing your oponent will get used to it and develop defensive manuvers more easily.

its like with akuma doin cr.mk light tatsu srk for maxium damage…if you do this all the time just coz it has the best damage then your not playing with your oponents mind on the long run…but if u switch it up from time to time from doin srk to hp xx demon flip then now you are. Its like beeing random while knowing what your doin.
*

i see things really in perspective so nvm if you dont get it


#9

Akuma’s fp SRK is the best finisher in every situation after a lk tatsu because of the knock down, the spacing, and because Akuma has the least amount of hit points and shouldn’t be choosing to put himself in a standing vs standing over a standing vs knockdown situation (again, exceptions are when you are running out of time and can’t afford to knock them down and also when they’re near stunned). I also don’t see how using that finisher all the time shows that you’re not playing with your opponent’s mind. That doesn’t make any sense. if that were true, how did he land the LK tatsu in the first place? By being predictable? You actually think that your opponent will develop defensive maneuvers against a knockdown from a SRK? It’s a standard knockdown. Maybe YOU mix up the combo finishers and do amazing with them. And thus it is better for YOU to do it.

I guess what I’m trying to say is if you choose to reset or knockdown, and you win, you made the right decision. And that decision was for that one specific situation which will never happen again.

Edited for anti-trolling


#10

lol your post really defines why i said this…your taking this as if i was really trying to say what akuma should do…im no gouki player and you know it…so if you used your brain a little bit you would know that i took this exemple just as a concept…

i took akumas exemple just to describe my philosophy on the subject not to say that akuma should do this or that…

just like i could of used urien by saying after doin tackles in corner he could either do knockdown xx mirror or reset xx mirror or kens ex tatsu etc.

if you do both reset and knockdows your oponent will have more trouble defending ON THE LONG RUN because oponent wont have time to adapt.

its all about not letting your oponent adapt to your game wether your beeing offensive or defensive.

try to understand before looking like your getting all upset and offended behind your computer screen…


#11

A corner reset lets you meaty with certainty; there’s no ambiguity about when they’re gonna land. If you go for the knockdown, you have to guess whether your opponent will quick rise or not for fat meaties because they have to be input before your opponent’s rising animation occurs. For some characters/situations the benefits of resetting outweigh the extra time and damage afforded to them from the knockdown.

An example: Urien ends a corner juggle on Alex with s.hp. Urien then goes for a meaty t.hp but Alex doesn’t quick rise, causing the t.hp to whiff. Alex gets up and throws Urien into the corner.

If Urien instead ends the juggle with a t.mp reset, he sacrifices 1 point of damage in order to meaty without having to deal with the quick rise guessing game.


#12

Well put. I agree (hope you dont mind that i did that) and forgot about the quickrise factor. It makes things a lot clearer. I’d like to add one thing though if you don’t mind does the ‘please dont hurt me’ motion regarding your comment on the fact that there’s no ambiguity on when they’re gonna land. I’d like to add that although this is true, people should know that it’s all based on when you decide to reset. Example: If i wanted to reset with a shoto standing jab, I have two types of jabs i can reset with and also i have a large window where I can push jab (and each variation would make the opponent land differently).

Let’s also add another PRO to the list of “reset vs knockdown” that you can juggle some resets with supers before they even land on the ground for some extra damage.


#13

What does this have to do with anything…clearly proves that you dont know what to answer to my post.

Your the one taking this personal Im a much better player then you are wtf?

and having a problem with saying that i see things in perspective.

We’ll have casual conversation, do each other’s hair, maybe spoon. But you’d be little spoon.

do you atleast undertand that my poor gouki exemple was just to explain the concept behind the problem with always doing knocdowns or always doin resets?? i guess not…so maybe i see things to much in perspective for you…


#14

Sorry. Just noticed now that you have neg rep. Apologies, everyone. Didn’t meant to feed fuel to the fire.