Hey guys, I play SF, some minor MK and MvC3 but watching some of the recent KoF13 footage and tournament matches has really sparked my interest in this game…I’ve never really played a KoF game and I was wondering how hard is it to pick up? How’s the combo leniency? Input leniency?
What’s the release date for the consoles? Is it alright to play this game on the pad like MK/SF and MvC?
Basically I just want a minor introduction to KoF because it looks like a really cool game to get into…
I hate the stupid misconception that KOF is hard to pick up. Sheesh. Especially saying things like “KOF is harder to pick up than SF.”
What is hard to pick up? Combos? If so does anyone find Ken’s st.MP > st.HP Target Combo into dp+HP hard? Easy right? Then what’s hard about doing Iori’s cl.C > f.A xx Aoi Hana series? Most combos in KOF are essentially more liberal target combos and hitconfirms with chaining light attacks. That doesn’t even happen in SF unless you’re playing something like A2 or 3s. If anything, combos and execution is harder in ST and Alpha 2 than it is in 98 and 02. Try doing cr.B, cr.A, f.A xx qcb+C x3 with Iori and compare it to renda canceling Ken’s low shorts into super in ST.
So then what else would make KOF harder? Zoning and spacing? KOF has more liberal movement and enough subsystems to allow for sloppier play and means around projectiles. So there is less an emphasis on grounded, walking footsies and committing to a jump and more around being ready to punish rolls and weaving in and out of appropriate areas with hops, running, crouching, and rolling/sidesteps. Although KOF does have depth when it comes to actual spacing, it’s not as minute and fine tuned as it is in SF, mainly ST. There isn’t as much discipline as I see compared to a Ryu mirror match or a Guile vs. O.Sagat match up.
So when it comes to execution and spacing, what does make KOF harder to pick up than SF? I see nothing at all. Just because if one gets beasted by silly gimmicks by intermediate Hispanic players online, it doesn’t mean that KOF is harder to pick up than SF.
If most US players really committed to the game for about 1-2 years and really played hard, we could all catch up to the other nations that have been playing the general KOF series for about a decade. Does it take a bit of time to learn? Yes, but it is by no means “harder” to learn than SF or any other fighting game series.
For the general beginners, here’s this KOF guide made by DandyJ. It’s pretty mandatory to watch if you’re coming into the KOF series without much knowledge about KOF game flow
Its not actually a misconception. I’ve played a large portion of both Kof and SF, and I can say KOF has tighter combos. Iori is not a good example just because he is really easy to combo with. Things like spacing are also more complex than sf, with the multitude of options available.
If you wanna learn KOF the best way to learn is to travel around the world… lol joking. Bur seriously I would recommend to find a sparing partner that know the basic knowledge about the game to teach you, wether online or offline. I find the tutorials useful but, I’ve always find it easier to learn games when somebody is explaining me first hand, maybe it’s just me.
It would help to list examples of what these “tighter” combos are because unless you’re playing Angel in 02, most combos are no different from SF bnbs. Spacing isn’t necessarily “more complex” but there are more options available because of things such as running, rolls, hops, etc. But it boils down to the rock/paper/scissors kind of game during the inside-game. Standing attacks against hops, hops against sweeps and other far reaching grounded normals, and sweeps against standing attacks. There is a few more layers and nuances such as Kensou and Athena being zoning characters, it’s not a free ride to try to hop over their projectiles so the player has to play more traditional SF footsies to get around them such as landing a good full jump, or just rolling at the right moment. Since movement is so liberal though, the player could just simply be in range or be outside of range of something an opponent does and just get a full punish off of it.
In Street Fighter though, there is certainly less subsystems especially if one counts ST and A2. But, due to limitations of movement and available universal systems, the player has to play a stricter ground game, really bait out opponents to do a bad jump-in, play footsies, and really abuse spacial advantage. Such as, a player has to go through a series of set ups just to make Dhalsim to do a bad drill to only punish it with a far st.MP or something minute as that. So there is this type of discipline that comes with SF, especially high level SF, that is just as hard as trying to learn KOF. The difficulty doesn’t necessarily lie in the amount of things a player needs to learn, not that it’s hard to learn KOF combos outside a few characters or learn what the hell a hop or roll is, but in the mental demand it makes of the player.
Seriously, if you’re a top level player at SF (not intermediate, top) and really know how to space with normals, KOF should be a breeze to learn. Vice versa. If you’re going into KOF from SF and you’re really good at SF, all you really need to know is that rolls are the new ST jumps (as in something that is a huge committal that goes around your attacks but you could earn a large punish off of it/high risk high reward), hops are a form of Standing Jab/Strong/Fierce that covers essentially the same space but allows a player to move forward or backwards while doing it (that is doing an early hop attack, which is susceptible to whiff and the opponent could let it whiff and punish it by crouching underneath. If the hop attack is done a bit later, it acts more like a jump-in but is more susceptible to anti-air before the attack actually comes out), and that there is no medium punch or medium kick buttons.
It works vice versa for KOF. When going from KOF to SF, one has to recognize that there are essentially no hops, rolls, or running (some may have dashes though) unless you’re playing 3s for whatever reason (universal overheads) so all a player could do is commit to jumping but one has to earn that right to do so. Since there are two more attack buttons and that grounded specials such as projectiles have a bit more dominance on the ground, the KOF player will have to recognize that he’d have to (generally) be in enough range to counter poke the higher start up attack that he wouldn’t be able to poke against once it’s out (projectiles) and be ready to respond against a bad jump. So essentially, while weaving in and out of normal attack ranges and maneuvering to limit or get over projectiles, he’s playing footsies. Then once the player can earn the right to put the opponent in the corner, the player has to maximize on spacing and get the opponent into a fireball trap and maximize the situation so that even if the fireball misses because of a jump or something, the player could anti-air the opponent.
How I perceive KOF and SF, they’re merely extensions of each other but with slight shifts in design here and there. At the core, they’re really the same game. It’s just that it’s easier to reach higher levels of KOF more quickly than it does with old school SF. Especially if you just want to tier whore in KOF, in 98um just choose Krauser/O. Geese/Eiji, Kyo/Iori/Daimon in 98, K’/King/Kasumi in 02um, Kim/Athena/Kula in 02, Kula/Gato/Oswald in XI, K’/Raiden/Shen Woo in XIII arcade. It’s not a free ride, but the player could really just play their own game when using teams like these and ride pretty easy. You could choose O.Sagat in ST, but you can’t really just throw dumb projectiles all day (has to be smart ones) and really know the match ups and play those match ups. Even in 3s, when you pick up Chun Li you have to learn each hit confirm (pretty easy) but then go learn stuff like SGGK with her and learn to confirm cl.RH and sjc into SA2 among other things.
So really, I’ve stated why I’d say KOF is not harder to learn as SF. It might be just as hard, but I really doubt at the higher levels it’s more difficult than ST or so. I’m willing to be stated wrong, but you have to prove it to me first with actual content if you’re going to stand by your stance. What’s harder and more complex about the spacing? Is it Chris that keeps doing hyper hop j.CD that locks the player down, then the player uses neutral hop j.B or D to poke at the right spacing to punish Chris, then encourage Chris to start doing super jump j.CD in which the player uses this opportunity to run underneath and anti-air with a cr.B into a full combo, then Chris starts to mix-up his slides and spacing in which the player could respond properly with hop-ins or what not? Is grappler okizeme that complex? Is learning how to guard roll against bad 2-in-1s that complex? Is anti-airing a hop with st.A that complex? Is it hard to recognize when to alternate guard against a bad tick throw attempt? There might be a lot of new things that intermediate SF players going into KOF that they need to learn, but by no means makes it hard to learn nor would it take much time to get caught up on what’s going on.
Maybe if you’re utterly bad at fighting games, it might be harder to learn KOF than SF because you get steamrolled by rushdown characters able to get in full combo each time they hop or something because you’re bad at blocking and using OSs.
Link combos and general cancelling from normals to specials seems tighter in Kof than SF. Most of my experience is from 98 and 02um. The added systems give more possibilities than A)Jumping B) Blocking C) Attacking D)Throws. This is what makes it seem to be a harder game to get into.
Quit insinuating that I am bad at FG’s because I find KOF harder. People that get a stick up their ass because of a different opinion need to STFU. Find something to do that isn’t writing a novel towards me.
Uhhh? Laban makes a good post to expand on his ideas vs. yours, and you jump down his throat for it because you don’t have the patience to read it? Look dude, he’s offering substantive arguments in favor of what he has to say. He addressed what you had to say (at considerable length taking the context into account), and you simply restated a point that’s been done to death and proven to be pretty solidly misguided before you even posted it. Don’t tell him to STFU when it’s you who clearly lack both the perspective to address his post and the patience to read it.
As far as executions go, I believe that KoFXIII is more akin to KoFXI. I play KoFXI and i can say the inputs are easy on pad or stick. The only thing I could say is difficult execution wise is that the Super/Max Cancels may be hard, but its all a matter of buffering your input or simply waiting to press a few buttons.
This game is definitely offensive, every character is rushdown capable if you ask me.
And currently console release date is set for 10/25
I agree with PongBoom in that capcom fighters are less difficult then SNK but only because SNK’s boss characters are notorious for their difficulty. Other than that it’s just a matter of practice just like every other game out there.
I tell him to stfu when he insists that I must be garbage at FGs because I find kof harder. Ive explained that in my view kof is harder, and he acts aggressive with insults. Boo hoo if I respond in turn. If you have so much time to read his walls of text, maybe you should have read mine above.
Edit; Also , read my first post. All i said was if someone wanted to play we could, and you assholes jump on me as if I was saying Hile Hitler. This is why I dont post as much amymore.
I have no patience for those that instigate views that could essentially turn people away from KOF for misguided reasons.
If you think KOF is harder to learn than SF. Then that’s what you think. You could state why and leave it at that.
You have the audacity to say “KOF series is a lot harder than capcom fighters” as a fact. When you’re willing to state an opinion in that manner, you’re up to argumentation and rhetoric. That statement is simply something I do not believe in at all and I do not wish for that mindset and that perspective to be perpetuated. I don’t want to see this scene to give off an impression that this game has some sort of high learning curve that scares off newer players, especially when that game does not have that learning curve. This isn’t Guilty Gear, Super Turbo, or Virtua Fighter 4. Most of the people I see that say things such as “KOF is hard to learn” just because no one else plays the game and wear the fact that they learned the game (pshhhhh) like some badge of honor. Certainly, I would hope, that isn’t your case but there are all sorts of people with different backgrounds that still say the same thing in the end, “KOF is harder to learn than other games.”
Since you decided upon yourself to stand by that statement, I will argue against it because it is simply false. If you have nothing more with actual content to argue for your stance, then your statement is merely degraded into an opinion based off a limited perspective.
People, seriously, stop saying KOF is hard/er when it really isn’t. Please stop saying such misguided things that will really scare away players. I’ll really take it to you if you try to argue otherwise.
The only one turning people away from KOF is people like you, writing giant walls of text on extremely specific situations and being aggressive to anyone not sharing your viewpoint.
The reason my posts were straightforward and came off as fact was because I was writing on my Ipod, which makes it hard to type. Also if I am posting something than it is MY OPINION. Just because I didn’t write IMO after every sentence doesn’t mean that isn’t just my opinion.
All I wrote was something to help the OP get started, which is by far more than what you did. If you cared so much about helping the KOF community than you wouldn’t argue with me (clearly a misguided fool) but rather help this guy instead. But I suspect you’d rather much just be right on the internet. Sorry OP, for derailing your thread. Can this just be locked or something by a mod? Guys like you (Laban) make me want to quit posting here.
Because me suggesting DandyJ’s guide or helping make the Hyperguide is not caring.
My main beef is misinformation. We already have a bunch of people like that doing so and we don’t need anymore, such as “Obscure Fowl.” Sorry for taking it too harshly but hot damn, I’m too fed up with all this miscommunication, misinformation, and lack of solid concrete info.
I’ve been building my KOF knowledge and I’m collaborating with others in making guides and tutorials, but I haven’t really seen anyone try to step it up to my level in terms of KOF knowledge in a short span to be able to give back to the community. Sad thing is that I’m one of the newer players that have to do it. So much for the “old community” trying to make something, only a small group (Socal, Gunsmith, #SNKPlaymore) seems to be doing anything. Then to top things off, people are saying stuff like KOF is hard to learn. It’s people like “Obscure Fowl” (if I say his real name he’ll all get riled up and make more dumb posts) and ignorant people that feel like they have to give their faulty opinion in a straight manner that make me want to stop contributing. But, I’ll keep doing what I have to do get people into the scene. That especially means stamping out any sort of bad info and proving it with arguments.
I don’t mind being proven wrong or having someone make a counter argument, but I take arguments as seriously as I do my fighting games. If every time I try to educate someone about something and use concrete details to support it, someone else is going to dance around with bad info and someone else will believe that. I don’t want any sort of that.
And the recurring, terrible statement that I’ve seen over the years that is just plain wrong is “KOF is harder to learn than ____ game/s.” It’s like saying to a new player, “Hey, this game is going to be hard as fuck, you’re going to lose a lot, and this is dominated by non-American players and you little hope of actually seeing results.” It’s like already telling people to not even bother with the game. I’m not saying you’re doing it in this manner, but I’ve seen other people post that simply as a means to stroke their own ego for actually “playing KOF” and “not playing SF.” The fact of the matter is that it’s not hard, and at this point I’m really damn mad that those who keep perpetuating it. Why do you people keep insisting upon this opinion? Why? I’ll go to hell and back to argue that it isn’t. I’m adamant.
There are going to be those that not only are new to KOF, but to fighting games as a whole. And you’re going to tell them right off the bat, “KOF is harder to learn than SF.” Especially when most of these people are either absolutely new to KOF, or started with SFIV and even struggled with that. You’re really going to say that KOF is that much harder to learn? It simply is not. If anything, KOF is easier to learn and it’ll help out with most players’ spacing game and understanding of normals that will really help them out when they go back to Street Fighter.
It seems like a small thing to get riled up about, but sometimes the littlest of things greatly matter in the long run. So it’s not just you, don’t take it personally. I’m attacking a concept, one that I don’t take kindly to. If you’re willing to stand by it, please make a good rebuttal.