[KOF XIII] EX Mr. Karate


#1

Now that he is available I think it’s time we started discussing his merits. I’ll go over a few points:
[LIST]
[]All of his normals (standing and crouching) with the exception of s.D are jump cancelable on hit (not on block). I see this as being useful for two things. The first is allowing him to combo into air hcf+K (hcf+B, specifically) from his standing normals, and the second is to allow for cross-up mix-ups after resets.
[
]s.D can link into s.C.
[]EX qcf+P has automatic guard crush properties on block.
[
]qcb+P counter will teleport through projectiles and establish close range. Frame advantage depends on the distance from the projectile’s originator.
[]EX qcb+P Counter will instantly punish projectiles, but again is range dependent. From full screen the opponent has more than enough time to block the counter, where Mr. Karate will be punishable. Only use from 2/3 of the screen or closer, but depends on projectile properties of individual characters.
[
]EX hcf+K is something of a teleport into a command grab. Will go through projectiles in the middle of its animation. If used late, you will be hit out of start up. This is better used as a read vs. projectiles, and the qcb+P counter is more of a reaction tool.
[]dp+A will hit opponents in juggle states, dp+C will not. I assume this is to prevent the ability to loop dp+C~A+B, dp+C~A+B, etc. in the corner indefinitely.
[
]f+A command attack can be canceled into dp+C on the second hit and connect, which seems to lead to his biggest midscreen damage opportunities (c.B, s.B, f+A xx dp+C~A+B…)
[]Best super to use for ending combos appears to be qcf, hcb+P. Higher damage than his other two options, and seems connectable in most situations.
[
]f,b,f+P only seems to have uses in the corner. Affects damage scaling too much and knocks back too far for it to have mid screen applications imo. Can link a dp+A afterwards in the corner without having to spend drive.
[]Should note that because backdash is airborne, you can backdash into air hcf+K instantly to catch people chasing you. This leads to juggle opportunities in the corner, haven’t tested midscreen.
[
]j.B, j.D, and j.CD all cross up. the j.CD crossup looks hilarious, because they will be pulled towards the direction of your jump arc, even though you hit them from behind.
[/LIST]
Overall impressions:
Lots of damage output and pressure. Doesn’t need much meter to inflict a lot of hurt. I don’t think he really needs to activate HD mode unless you really need to go in for the kill. My midscreen BnB for 1 meter (no drive) does 401. He hits like a truck.

Edit: Oh yeah, don’t throw fireballs at him. Like, EVER.


KoF XIII General Discussion: Part II
#2

I’m starting to come around to Mr. Karate, but I’m still favoring Takuma at the moment. Really the big things I’m noticing is that compared to Takuma his normals seem faster and he has much better confirms off of lows, but his lockdown isn’t as good because all his safe specials push you out really far which hurts your pressure, and even on hit unless you’re in the corner his attacks send people flying away really far. His damage is good, but it doesn’t really compare to Takuma’s, and while Takuma will generally need more drive here or there he gets way more damage out of everything than Mr. Karate does except for meterless hit confirms off of lows.

So basically as I see it, if you want lock down pressure and damage, go with Takuma. If you want good hit confirms, better anti air options, and an easier time getting in, go with Mr. Karate. Both are solid options and I’d say pretty even in terms of ability, it’s just a matter of play style.


#3

What do you think of KOFXIII on the hitbox instead of on stick?


#4

Oh, I neglected to mention that both dp+A and EX dp+P appear to be invincible. Good reversal options.

JohnGrimm: Knocking people away isn’t a huge concern, imo. You can link TK EX air hcf+K into itself for full screen corner carries off of hit confirms, if you have the meter. If you want screen position, and have meter to spend, it’s yours for the taking. Still, a worthwhile comparison. I haven’t dabbled much with Takuma as I am new to the KoF series, so it’s nice to get the comparison for people stuck making the Takuma vs. Mr. Karate choice when constructing their teams.


#5

Hah, well that’s not really relevant to this thread, but it works just fine. No 720’s means I can play anyone I want without having to worry about not getting a move when I need it. Not that 720’s are impossible or anything, I just never learned how to do them because I don’t really play grapplers.

That personally seems like a lot of meter for a corner carry to me. Generally if I want to get someone in the corner I don’t want to use more than one meter and maybe a drive. Even still, ending a block string with fireball pushes you out to half screen making it very difficult to keep the pressure on where as with Takuma you’re still in perfect positioning to make sure your opponent can’t jump or roll out of the corner or to keep you in mid screen. He has pretty much no other safe specials, so you’re going to be relying on his normals entirely, which isn’t necessarily bad since his normals are pretty good, but then you’re susceptible to reversals.

Also, I feel that super jump cancelling is pretty worthless right now. Unless I see someone come up with a really ambiguous cross up setup that’s also a safe jump, I’m not buying it. The combos into TK Hien are kinda gimmicky, EX as a wall carry is alright, but other than that they don’t seem to be optimal combos.


#6

I don’t think TK Hien combos are a gimmick at all. Right now, I’m using this as a hitconfirm:

c.B, s.B, f.A xx dp+C~A+B, TK hcf+B, qcf, hcb+A

401 damage, 1 bar, works anywhere on screen. Definitely practical applications.

Edit: fixed combo notation.


#7

I mean Super Jump Cancel TK Hien combos. I use TK Hien in combos all the time too, but never from super jump cancel.


#8

Ahhh. Yeah the sjc value is dubious, but I’m sure some uses will reveal themselves to us in time.

Edit: Credit to t3h mAsTarOth…!on the DC forums for that midscreen BnB btw. I didn’t innovate it.


#9

Well then here’s a corner BnB for you if you need one. One meter, one drive, godlike damage. I think it does 565.

j.D, cl.C, f.A (2 hit) xx DP+C~AB, j.HCF+B, DP+A DC j.HCF+B, DP+A, QCF, HCB+A

That’s the best corner BnB I found.


#10

j.D, s.C, f+B xx dp+C~A+B, qcf+A, dp+A DC air hcf+B, qcf+A, qcf, hcb+A = 584. Also credit to t3h mAsTarOth…! In fact, he won’t mind if I quote and put his information here, I’m sure…


#11

Yeah basically with Mr.Karate you don’t really need to burn drive unless you really want to squeeze out a bit of extra damage in the corner an extra 100 damage for 1 drive is pretty useful. I think though in general its better to just save all your drive for hd combos with mr.karate unless you know you’ll kill if you have hd. Maybe soon people wiill find better stuff thoug that makes that not true.


#12

Tried this for a bit too. One thing I learned is that instead of doing the TK hcf+B, you can do hop B and mixup from there with a grab, hop attack, hop then low, etc.


#13

I’d had this mental picture of myself placing him as anchor on my team (this was before actually playing him), but his meter requirements don’t really require him to be played there. I honestly think he might be best suited as a point character, because his output with no meter/one meter is very high, and you can stock a lot of drive for a second/third character. I think that because of his low meter requirements he’s better off in a slot other than anchor.


#14

What are the properties of his ShoranKyaku? I haven’t seen any discussion of this move at all. Can you combo into it? Out of it? What are the differences between B,D, and EX? Is it a true command grab?


#15

I think I agree with him most on 2nd personally. As I see it a team with Mr. Karate would go like Battery/Mr. Karate/Versatile Anchor. This way when Mr. Karate comes in he’s got the meter to get 400+ damage every time he hits you, which will be devastating. He’ll either kill you in 3 combos, or when he goes out your anchor will have probably 2 or 3 meter, and if you have an anchor that builds meter easily that can use it (a reason I wish I could have Mr. Karate and Takuma on the same team :P) they’ll be set. That seems like the scariest build to me.

B is short range, D is further range, EX tracks, you can’t combo into it, it’s a true command grab, you can’t drive cancel it from what I can see, it’s just a mixup tool. Could be good for catching rolls if someone finds an option select for it, otherwise it’s pretty meh. There’s some use for going through fireballs as well.


#16

It is a command grab. Haven’t been able to combo into it (start up is always too slow). EX is invulnerable during the middle of the animation, which is good for passing through predicted projectiles. Cannot be drive canceled and always pushes too far away to follow up, even in the corner.

Worth noting: the animation for the B and D versions are identical to his run/dash animation. I believe this will be useful for mixups in frame trap situations. Teach your opponent to block in certain situations where you have time to run in and attack. The next time you set this situation up, go for hcb+K throw instead. This trick is obviously not useful with the EX version, which animates with a flash and goes invisible.

B and D versions are identical in terms of range (2/3 screen) and damage (both 133). EX version is full screen and does 188. (Just tested this JohnGrimm, I thought the range was different too, but it’s not).

Re: Position - He’s really so versatile I can see him being used anywhere. My preference is somewhat based around the fact that I already have someone in mind for that slot on my team, which leaves him to occupy one of the other two. His meter -> damage output efficiency is scary.

Question - Bad Matchups?

I said before (maybe in the GD thread) that I don’t really think he has bad matchups, but I’m rethinking that. I believe he may have difficulty getting out of the pressure of characters like K’ and Kula, who have very good mid range pokes that out-range most of Mr. Karate’s normals. This may require smart countering and/or use of dp+A (or EX) invincibility, but those both seem like risky options.

Thoughts?


#17

I think anyone who can control space well and has a good reversal is going to give Mr. Karate a hard time. Long range normals and short range fireballs (Ryo, Yuri, another Mr. Karate etc.) are going to be a real pain in the ass since it’s not going to be very easy to parry on reaction like long range fireballs and Mr. Karate’s stubby normals aren’t going to help him get in at all. You could guess an EX command grab, but just yesterday while playing casuals I managed to punch him out of it on reaction, so I don’t see it as being a strong tool. He could maybe work his way in with sweeps and far C and the occasional QCF+P, but it’s going to be a hell of a time actually closing the gap.


#18

Fun new combo I cooked up, and rather practical:

(Corner) j.CD (counter hit), qcf+C~f,f, qcf+A*, dp+A DC air hcf+B, qcf+A, qcf~hcb+A(+C)

560 for the level one. 650 if you EX the final super. I often get counterhit j.CD against opponents eager to get out of the corner.

  • = If you don’t want to get qcf+C~f,f, f~hcf+P (which you will get, and which will not juggle) you need to delay slightly between the dash cancel and the qcf+A. That’s what worked for me, anyway. This combo really punishes opponents trying to stick out moves or jump out of the corner.

Grimm: Yeah we’re going to have to let Mr. Karate’s place in the metagame unravel a little more before we figure out his good and bad matchups, but he’s not quite the jack of all trades, and seems prone to being zoned at mid range.

Oh, was also experimenting with resets into EX qcf+P. The only way to combo after this crushes guard is to spend 50% Dream and Super Cancel it into qcf~hcb+P. You could do other supers, but this is the best damage. Remember: you can only DC a special on a hit, which the guard crush does not count as (though it does do 16 damage which I assume is chip). I’ve got a few resets down, but they’re not very meter efficient, and I will probably use them more to troll/style on people than actually boost damage.


#19

That actually doesn’t apply to Super Cancels, you can Super Cancel on block no problem. I do it with Kim when I do QCB+D and it gets blocked all the time to make it safe.


#20

Yeah that’s what I was getting at. DCs and SCs are two different things, which is why you can only SC the EX qcf+P, and not DC (because it would be really cool to do EX qcf+P DC dp+C~A+B -> …).