The vibe I got was that if you’re going to run Kyokugen, you run Takuma.
Ryo is really good as well. His cl.D in previous games is now his st.D without any difference between close and far. Really beefy pressure and frametrap move. His Koken still has a good hitbox and is able to frametrap as well, especially EX version being to meaty, fast, and safe. I’ve seen someone just mash 3-4 EX Koken endgame and it worked. In the corner, Ryo could always combo A version Koken into B version Hienshippu Kyaku. Ryo can do cr.B x2, st.A xx B Hienshippu Kyaku on all the characters in the game, just pay mind you have to really chain the two cr.Bs closely. Ryo’s DP is still Ryo’s DP. st.CD is still pretty good as it is. Ryo has that better j.CD where he helicopters so he’s able to have more downward j.CD pressure to lock down opponents as he’s trying to get his empty hop and hop pressure. He doesn’t have overhead properties if he delay cancels his f.A overhead, but his f.A overhead can plainly super cancel now. He can cr.B, cr.A xx Neomax as well as f.A xx Neomax. Far C super cancels as well, could set up for another frametrap.
So in essence, Ryo is really good; you just have to know how to really do your blockstring pressure and you have to know how to get in and be able to frametrap and guard break. You could even bait out Counter CD attacks by just canceling that move in your string that you think will get Counter CD’d by doing his parries, f.B and df.B. You could even confirm a guard break using normals and then shorten the recovery and go into a combo by using whiff parries as well. He’s a really solid character but you can’t be a dumb scrub and do silly shit like qcf+B > dp+A blockstrings. You have to play him solidly, he can’t really do running cr.B pressure like other characters for a stronger high/low game but he makes up for it by uniquely having one of the stronger frametrap games amongst the characters.
Robert is Robert, he plays a basic offensive high/low game coupled with having a command grab. His j.D is still really difficult to deal with and he still has a good dive attack. He could play a basic neutral game with fireballs and anti-air attacks and then be able to stack on his offensive and make the opponent want to counter approach, in which Robert could start turtling/zoning it out with backwards hop j.D and the such. He could do simple combos like cr.B, cr.A, f.B xx fbf+k or hcf+k, and simple jump-in/hop-in combos. I’m feeling his j.D could troll Ein Triggers in the close/mid-close game.
Takuma is Takuma like 98 Takuma except with a worse off fireball game but a better inside game. In 98, the only way to hitconfirm into a knockdown without using super was really to delay cancel cr.B or cr.A into f.B to get that hard knockdown. In 02um, Ura Takuma had the same thing but at least he could extend his damage by doing a df.B OTG. Now Takuma has things such as a command grab and quickly charging Hienshippu Kyaku to knockdown and also lead into big drive cancel combos into stun. So although his zoning is slightly not as good, he certainly isn’t worse off.
Mature, as I’ve been testing, is still really good. She is even relevant in games such as 98 og or 02um like a secret high tier character. In this iteration, she could play her zoning game to some extent, her fireball isn’t as good first off. That encourages more jumps from more angles to get over it, but now Mature has a faster j.D attack to cover that up-forward range as she’s hopping or jumping. Her j.C really isn’t as much used in this application as it was in the past, but it has a good general hitbox both forward and downwards and slightly upwards. Where she can’t cover with her j.C, she has j.D. In regards to her j.CD, it doesn’t cover the same space it does but it covers that downward, horizontal space extremely quickly. Since pushback on j.CDs is only applicable to the opponent and not the attacker, Mature could just abuse neutral hop j.CD just like Blanka could abuse neutral j.RH in Hyper Fighting. Same with any other character with a downward, horizontal j.CD since the attacker doesn’t get pushed back.
What Mature focuses in on now is her great frametrap game and her ambiguous far and close B. That new qcb+B move Mature has is now better as it does pretty decent chip and is relatively safe while moving her forward. Pile in both far and close B cancel, either hit of close B cancels, cr.A cancels and could chain from cr.B, and both far and close C attacks are fast and cancel while moving Mature forward; Mature is a frametrap/chip nightmare. She has a better, standard jump-in attack with j.C, and Mature could frametrap an anti-air attempt with a neutral hop j.CD. Mature’s first rekka is relatively safe on block, so she has a few applications and commitments with it. She could try to confirm a rekka and be safe on block and possibly get more damage if it actually hits but be pushed out on block and somewhat end offensive momentum, or get guaranteed chip that moves her forward to continue pressure with qcb+B but lose an opportunity on hit to continue damage.
Also EX fireball is really good for Mature. One time I got a full screen knockdown and did EX fireball and had enough time to run and jump over the opponent before the fireball hit. It’s a good slow, 3-hit projectile in which Mature could follow closely and the opponent should not ever jump or roll because she will punish either.
I’m tired of people saying certain characters are bad or not good. It’s as if no one has an imagination to find new strategies or possibilities anymore.
On the Kyokugen team: I realy like yuri, her dive kick is awesome, and she’s got somme pretty nasty corner combos with her Saiha.
Also she might annoy people into submision.
Dunno, Yuri is still Yuri. I’d say she’s some in between of 98 and 02 Yuri plus Demon Flips/Dives. I wouldn’t say dives are as relevant in this game than in SF due to the ability to space with hops and jumps. You could just simply hop j.D with Kyo and keep her out and she’d have to play a more normal KOF meta-game. I’d say her new strength might lie in the actual Demon Flip but it might be overshadowed by solid basics she has in this game. She has easy 02 Yuri like hit confirms into DP, but she could do run cr.B pressure better than 02 Yuri but more similarly to 98 Yuri. She still has a pretty low-to-the-ground hitting j.C that you can toss out early as an OS Airthrow. She’s able to control the basic space well with a good sweep, decent far C, good cr.C, st.B, Koken and cr.D xx Koken, and etc. Having the ability to do both her grounded Air Koken and mid-jump Air Koken is a good plus for zoning and traps. Solid jump-ins and air-to-airs all around.
Over all she is a good basic character that beginners could pick up. It’s just she no longer has an infamously small crouching hitbox now and Leona could just j.A instant overhead xx V-slash Yuri as well. I guess dive is good, but it’s overrated. People should be more hype for moves such as st.B actually hitting crouchers now and cancels into DP.
jus wondering, is there any frame data for kof 13 around anywhere? maybe a japanese technical guide of some sorts
also a question; how is the team building in this game? is it like marvel where all kinds of stuff matters such as who builds meter, who uses meter more efficiently and who works best first etc? or is it more kinda pick your 3 favorites and go?
im interested in running ryo and iori in some way, is this a viable in anyway? im thinking iori in the back as anchor(purely because i only see him in the back in the vids so im guessing hes a good anchor, no experience with him to judge) and im thinking ryo second? i still havent really seen a 3rd character yet, any reccomendations that could aid this team so far?
sorry for the noob questions, im a kof noob waiting for 13 to hit consoles
I wouldn’t say frame data is relevant in learning KOF. What you need is to learn fundamentals and basics first. Team building is more like pick your 3 favorites and go. I tested some new Iori technology and he could be played first, it’s just most people prefer to do big combos with him so they put him at the end. Ryo is a solid character and could be played in first or second as well. It all depends on which character you want the meter for for your last position and it’s up to you. If a character has a weak crouching, low-hitting light attack combo, then you could put the meter on them for anchor like Shen Woo then do crouching light attacks into Hyper Drive mode and do a big combo from something that didn’t give you damage in the first place.
I’d say try to learn you characters in KOF98 or 02 and just make minor adjustments to your game when XIII is out.
i see, thanks for the answers it will make picking my team that much easier
frame data isnt really relevant to learning any fighter really but u cant say it isnt a resource than can help people up there game greatly, even if its just knowing when its safe to push what button where
in the end i do want to learn fundamentals first and foremost before anything else, thats really what comes first in any fighter
ill take ur advice and try out the older games for sure
Thanks for the info on everyone so far Laban. So far everyone still looks extremely interesting to play regardless.
Framedata is something we’re going to have to work out ourselves. I hope to get to it at some point. But it’s a lot of work, especially to do on your own.
Anyway, framedata is going to look weird if you’re not used to KOF. You don’t need absolute frame advantage to stay on offense, moves that are -1, or even -4 on block are ‘pretty good’ and could even be considered to be advantageous. It becomes useful after some time, but you really need to know the fundamentals of the game, which are quite radically different from SF to make sense of it at all.
Besides that hitstun is universal (just like any kof) so you can actually ‘feel’ or ‘see’ how bad something is on block.
Personally I go by feel. I’d say for reference, you could search around for KOF Crazy Encyclopedia’s (KCE) frame data and hitbox data for KOF98. You could use this as reference to see what might be similar in XIII.
Here’s Iori for example. If you look at his cl.C attack, the start up is 2 frames, the active is 7 frames, and the recovery is 14 frames. With the amount of blockstun it induces in addition to the amount of pushback, it’s pretty much safe on block. If you feel out the move, you could tell that it’s fast and pretty meaty. With a hitbox like that, it’s great for anti-air and frame traps.
And here’s Ryo’s frame data and hitbox data. If you see that fourth picture, that’s Ryo’s cl.D. In XIII, that is his standing D regardless of close or far; and you could tell with that hitbox, start up, and active frames that it’ll be a really beefy move to put in blockstrings and frame traps.
Here’s the link for the frame data and hitbox data in general. I don’t think all the characters are covered but at least the most popular characters to use in play should be filled out with data.
yeah i know what u mean about not needing absolute frame advantage, in tekken most moves that are -9 or below are considered safe since jabs are all 10 frame startup so anything less than that is safe
its a shame that no company did a technical guide for kof13 like the ones for ae or blazblue, guess its the old set the dummy to do a move then block, try everything to punish it till something works for punishes and for air tight offense we gotta figure out our selves
You’re making the game sound pretty good.
I’m just hoping people will actually pick up this game and take it seriously; it’s one of the most balanced and fun KOF games with interesting, new tools for returning characters. People complain about K’ and Raiden, but I’d say it’s mainly due to the commonality of the characters. K’ is still just 02um with less tools but bigger damage output, you can deal with him. Raiden’s EX Tackles after Drop Kicks is silly, but he still has to set up for drop kicks with limited amounts of tools he has without his kicks.
Compared to Goro, Chizuru, Iori, O. Yashiro, and Chris in 98 or Athena, Billy, Choi, Kim, Angel, and Vanessa in 02; K’ and Raiden are small time. Although very balanced, characters actually have good, interesting tools that are not simply homogenized. Although zoning characters could do more cr.B, cr.A knockdowns or running cr.B pressure, they’re still largely zoners and have differently focused strengths and not play like Kyo or K’.
The King of Fighters 2002: Unlimited Match Thread
the problem with yuri is that she doesn’t have the same range as before, she is smaller now.
people will complain for the lack of moves in this game, EX moves will supplement this probably.
Some things don’t seem to work as well as before like clark’s close c into command grab, I missed that one several times
and the game doesn’t feel as smooth as other kofs,
this is normal because of the new graphics, the game is still evolving but it feels like kof somehow
I never had this problem with Yuri. Her hitboxes and normals are all pretty good. Clark’s cl.C into command grab works fine for me. The game certainly is KOF, it even feels faster than 98 and smoother than the mess 02 og feels like (chaining crouching light attacks for example, it’s better in 02um though.)
Maybe it’s just me. I main 98 but I have a friend that prefers to play 02 so I learned enough of that game just so I could help him with his game. Then I went on to learn 00 and a bit of XI so I can easily transition from one KOF to another without problems. In the context of the whole matter, XIII feels really good. I’d say the main thing is just getting used to phasing through people as you hop through them and it leads to easier and dirtier cross ups, which I do enjoy though.
I have confirmation from someone that collaborates closely with Atlus and the KOF XIII development team about the netcode, I can’t say anything, -anything, but when I knew what KOF XIII will use as it’s netcode, and I’m a huge skeptic, I became very happy and all I can say is that KOF XIII will have the best netcode of -all-, yes, and it’s not an overstatement, ALL console fighting games released till now. News should be coming soon… at an important event somewhere. Sorry people, I can’t clear up anything else.
This is the sketchiest fucking post I’ve ever read. “I have sources, but I can’t actually say anything, and I can’t actually even hint about what the thing I can’t talk about is, but its totally real you guys”
But I’m hyped anyway.
I just can’t throw out any information yet, but what I know will, hopefully be revealed soon at a coming event. If I say anything it’d be pretty easy to figure out what’s going to be. I can say this however, it’s something I, as a skeptic and more or less pesimist didn’t think was going to happen. It might be KOF’s startup point in the US. Actually, it surely will be.
Go ahead and say the four magic letters Pablo. We know you want to.
No, it isn’t that…