KoF XIII General Discussion: Part II


#2801

You can select the EX characters by highlighting Kyo, Iori and Takuma and hitting select. To unlock Billy and Saiki you need to play arcade mode. Do you see those objective at the top left corner? Do as many as possible to fight Saiki and unlock him and do as few as possible to fight Billy and unlock him.


#2802

Thanks, I’m trying to learn the game while beginning with Kensou, but man these basic combos are pretty hard…I can barely land his link after target combo…eh practice practice


#2803

Does anyone know what the arcade style button layout is like for this game? I just bought this on steam (PC) and kind of new to the KOF scene, but if I ever come across this game at the arcade I want to be able to play with the same button layout as I do on my computer. I have the Hori Real Arcade Pro btw.


#2804

Pretty sure most XIII machines have extra buttons and let you chose from a couple preset configurations.

The most common layouts are
box
AC
BD

or rainbow
BCD
A
the top row on rainbow might be offset, but those are pretty much accepted as the standard.


#2805

So with the box layout it would look like:
LP HP
LK HK
Is this correct?


#2806

Yes.

I’ve ended up with
lp hp hk
lk
for some reason


#2807

I usually play box because it is closer to what I am use to in SF4. I usually unbind the side buttons so I don’t accidentally activate HD or something.


#2808

Lemme’ crawl out from under my rock.

Going back to my old team: Clark, Billy, Hwa. For the most par they’re interchangeable on point but 9.9 times out of 10 I keep Hwa as Anchor. I like Clark; he’s got decent pokes, can combo off of cr.Bx2 into EX Grab, best Oki game of all the grapplers, EX Shoulder goes through projectiles and can punish certain things, and an air grab. Biggest weakness is his mediocre AA game and he can’t do anything on wakeup to stop hop pressure. Starting to re-learn HD combos with him but because I run him 1st I don’t often get the chance to do so and see more advantages with using his EX Shoulder or EX SAB.

Billy is another amazing character on 1st but he works relatively well on 2nd. Amazingly good footsies that only Rekka characters and Mr. Karate can shut down. GDLK EX SRK (with a ton of invincibility) and among the very few characters with a good Mexican Uppercut. Biggest problem is that he can’t get big damage unless he has them in the corner and he needs meter in order to stop hop in pressure on wakeup.

Hwa, gdlk. You don’t really need to know HD combos with him, just Drunk Combos. I can do 1 HD Combo but I personally think he gets more out of Drunk Mode then anything else. Just the fact that D Dragon tail can cross them up and certain normals get more frames of hitstun, not to mention D SRK gets projectile invincibility on startup and the potential of catching a dude jumping with either D or B Dragon Tail is good to have. His footsies are a little poor, relying more on st.D, CD, and his Slide to get in.


#2809

What about playing with

ABCD-top row
xxxx-bottom row

I thought that was how it was in the old SNK arcades.


#2810

I actually find with Billy his worst match ups tend to be characters like King who can disrespect his space control game. I think Billy does ok against Mr.K oddly enough so long as you play pro-active.

Billy’s mid screen damage is good enough and coupled with the fact he converts counter hits so easily into big combos I don’t think Billy has any problem with damage if you use him to his max.

Billy’s weak spot IMO is that his defense is sub-par. He’s pretty easy to pressure if you get him locked down. You have to be solid on defense to get out of a bad situation or just be so good at controling the neutral game that you never get put into that spot.


#2811

I somewhat agree. Billy’s jumping C is really good against zoners as is his crouching A. But in general (IMHO) it’s probably better to walk in and not fall for their obvious setup -keep throwing fireballs, bait you to jump so they can AA or roll away from you and keep chucking fireballs- and work your way in.

His defense is really good actually. EX SRK has invincibility and you can’t cross him up either and as I said his crouching C is among the best Mexican Uppercuts in the game. Very few things (mostly well placed CD’s or Kyo’s down C) beat it and/or trade. The problem is he cannot get big damage unless you have them in the corner. His HD combos are mediocre. To me I’d rather spend the meter on EX SRK or if I want to chip kill go for the EX Flaming Wheel. That, and I want to save Drive Meter for Hwa.

I can’t bring myself to mindlessly jump in like everyone else (and most guys who do that main Kyo or Karate for good reason) because either I have the worst luck or I’m that obvious but every time I get aggressive or go for a reset, like 9 times out of 10, the other guy will mash out an EX or Super to reversal. And if they just got x number of damage on me that would be okay but often with an EX move they can Drive Cancel and continue the combo for 3-400 damage and put you right in the corner…


#2812

I have to disagree on the defense. Billy’s reversals are so slow they are easy to safe jump which opens up a ton of 50/50s. In fact you can be so lazy with the safe jump timing that you can set up some really dumb stuff. Against any player worth his weight Billy’s DPs aren’t going to get you out consistently without a really really good read so you are often having to take whatever mix up they throw at you. Also when Billy is out of meter he has nothing for the opponent to really fear if they are running a tightly timed offense. It’s just too easy to go nuts against Billy if he gets backed up. In addition Billy’s close C is mad unsafe so getting baited into a throw break usually means you are going to get bodied. d.C is an awesome button so won’t argue that.

Now Billy’s EX DP is excellent as an offensive tool and to AA high jumps. It’s also a good way to blow someone up for trying to disrespect your corner pressure if you get a good read.

Billy’s damage mid screen is around 30% for 1 bar which is not shabby especially in the point position. You don’t need massive damage, but also if you learn your counter hit combos you can convert a j.CD into an easy 300-600 damage from mid screen easily leaving the opponent in the corner where Billy makes his money. I mean look at a basic counter hit combo

j.CD > f.B > LK DP > HP Horizontal Chain > Flame Ender

Does 307 meterlessly and easy to confirm even from a distance. Even if you are at the wrong spacing where the DP whiffs things like j.CD > f.B > EX Horizontal Chain > Flame Ender does 331. That a plenty damage for 1 bar. Then if you happen to be close enough that the DP takes to the corner you can get upwards of 500+. Hell for one drive you can get 423. That’s more than EX Iori can get for 1 bar one drive without having to do the rekka cancel. Billy really doesn’t have an issue with damage. Those are combos I pull off regularly with him. If you are playing him correctly.

Now if we are talking about big kill combos yes Billy lacks easy mid screen ones and that one reason he falls off a little later in the order, but most of the time you would start him on point where he becomes a meter efficient force.


#2813

While we’re on the subject of Billy. I can’t figure out for the life of me when I’m supposed to drive cancel A upstick DC C upstick.

I’ve seen it done as a midscreen bnb c.B, st.B xx B DP, A Upstick DC C upstick A followup

What is it I could be missing?

Edit: nevermind, figured it out. The input is A upstick DC C staff twirl kara upstick
WTF?


#2814

The thing is, you would never use his SRK outside of comboing into it. It’s ass. The EX on the otherhand is gdlk and what you should be using on wakeup and reversals. It is slow enough to safe jump but it depends on your timing. Just like crouching C is a gdlk Mexican Uppercut but if you do it too late on their jump in you’re going to get punished.


#2815

When I talk about DP I mean EX DP because yea the other two have no invincibility.

EX DP it is horrible on wake up. As mentioned it is so bloody easy to safe jump. If the opponent isn’t jumping like an idiot it’s worthless. The basic premise is that a single set up negates all of Billy’s wake up options which in turn opens you up to mix ups. That’s the definition of sub-par defense. The move itself is actually good as an anti-air and also as a comboing tool.

Down C is a great button, but you have to accept a couple mix ups before you get a chance to use it which is why Billy’s defense is sub-par.


#2816

Gotcha.


#2817

Rising Tackle or Billy’s DP? Which is worse?


#2818

What are the frames for safe jumping? What’s the minimum number of frames an EX would have that could be safe jumped? I’m guessing 4-5. Gonna’ test this out.

And Rising Tackle is worse just because it’s a charge move.


#2819

So, it looks like specials/EX’s/Supers/Neomax’s or whatever that have a startup of 4 frames or less cannot be safe jumped. Tested it against Benny and no dice.

Trying to find another character that I get and just not finding it. The problem is that I have to save meter for Hwa so he can raep. I think I’ll keep my team order but be more conservative with my use of meter with my 2nd character.


#2820

There are safe jumps against 3 frame moves. I have one with Iori that will safe jump King’s LvL2 super. It’s just not easy (Frame perfect timing) and not always available off all knockdowns.

Though moves like King’s Neo max there is no safe jump against because it is a 0 frame start up. It’s one of the reasons I love anchor King vs Kim because if I have 3 bars and full HD I can punish every thing he does which makes Kim slow down. Hell Neo max can punish EX Hangetsuzan from some spacings where the last hit whiffs.

Billy’s DP is worse on wake up. You can check with with a pseudo-safe jump EX Iori has. If you finish a combo with all three hits of the HP rekka you can immediately neutral jump (Not super jump) and get a safe jump against certain characters. Billy is one of those characters. Rising Tackle on the other hand will beat out this set up easily.

Rising Tackle is fast enough that you have to be on point with your safe jump timing which gives Terry a little easier time to defend. The EX one is actually pretty decent as a reversal.

That EX Iori set up is a lazy safe jump you can use against characters with slow reversals, but there are only a hand full of characters don’t have some way to blow it up which is why I call it a pseudo safe jump.

Now I only say on wake up Billy’s EX DP is bad. In all of its other applications that move is awesome because it’s speed is no longer a problem.