KoF13 Tier List Discussion


#183

I’m looking back on this forum on all of those tier lists I made from mmcafe, including the ones made by everyone else… I now find them to be rather pointless, due to every character being viable. This game is more or less balanced… This is literally a game where it depends on the players ability to utilize the characters tool.


#184

I still think Clark is Mid high or at the least Mid tier. And in this game Mid tier is pretty damn good.

Robert’s starting to make some traction which is interesting. I think it’s because he has so many tools and while only one or two of them are actually good, he can mind fuck you with his options.


#185

A KOF tier list would have to be out of S, A, and B. that’s the only way.


#186

ahhhhh i wish this game dident have a crappy netcode, i know 4 people that would of bought it too if werent for that.
louis cipher really loves Clark. Lol


#187

My Clark love is totally no-homo.


#188

I see Mr. Karate as being very top-tier.

EX Iori seems to have potential as well.

Overall though there seem to be quite a good deal of powerful characters in this KOF.


#189

“potential” lol


#190

This is how I feel about XIII right now. If you don’t agree with this, I don’t care.


#191

Shen on the same tier as Athena, Maxima and Robert? This tierlist needs to be wiped from existence.


#192

Shen’s tools are shit, without HD he’s got garbage confirms from lows, his no meter options are terrible, if he didn’t have Shen Woo damage in HD no one would play him besides character loyalists.


#193

He does big damage without HD but needs meter (there aren’t many characters that can do good damage with no meter) and he can confirm anything from a low, just requires a link that isn’t so hard to perform anyway. He has all the tools except possibly a really good crossup.


#194

hey was bored heres one i just made. i dont think its so important to make a complicated tier list for this game…in a lot of situations you can take a lot of damage for small mistakes and anyone can win from that type of thing, so the nuances of the match ups in some ways dont hinder characters the way they might in a lower damage game. the way i think of it is

http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/kof13/index.html#ya0-tri680cd80ddbf94eji1ele880jyiyegivavekjy80h2bdjqelh5ghi5ixiube9ubccniu81bbklbffagfj0gjdfggkwghbjgglhem9ngdmebfg9emgaiwasitcmeoeeenf7bdblbcaj80gc81-bk8-nafart

S - no weaknesses, even if the character lacks something, it doesnt matter much, or their other tools are enough to significantly outweigh the disadvantages
A - strong characters, but maybe have some hard matches or drawbacks
B - characters that are strong in one way or another, but have some clear weaknesses
C - characters that lack things they need to be in a higher tier, or have weak versions of things they should have

i think kensou and maxima are maybe exceptions, enough to be ranked higher

also shen can do cr.b cr.b st.a into level 2 for not so bad damage and its easy…especially for a character that ‘doesnt do damage easily from a low’


#195

I agree with most of it except I think Kula should be one level higher and King should be two levels higher (why is she so low in your list???). Also maybe Mature can go up one level…or half.


#196

you think king is among the best? i had her one higher and decided to lower her. shes a proven tournament character so i guess that should do something for her, but so is billy (oh btw, the double row shes in is supposed to be all the same rank). her d and space control is good but she lacks damage and strong anti airs. both solved by meter, but she is not fitting of anything but a battery. its the same issue as billy or robert; they are strong space control/momentum characters with weak damage. they are better with meter, but so is everyone else, and once you get past that 1st character slot, it becomes more and more disadvantageous to pick characters like that.

kula i think could do up a rank if her dp or cr.C was better, or had a better jump CD, faster qcf+A, safer qcb+B…basically something to make it more difficult or riskier to disrespect this character. i feel like once you get above st.b height, she doesnt have anything truly threatening, or something she can use regularly as a part of her offense to keep you from going nuts. you can eat a lot of j.b and walk it off, and she has to mix up her strings a lot to keep people in check. i see her as a character with a similar play style to ex kyo, but i feel he does it much better. edit - actually i thought i had put kula in not the lowet tier, guess i was feeling hateful at the time hah. maybe 5 tiers would express the balance better.


#197

Robert and Billy have weak damage? This is news to me, but maybe we have different standards as to what constitutes “good” damage. I agree with you as far as King’s damage goes, but using her as a battery is possibly one of the worst ways to utilize her given her potential with meter. She’s generally best used as mid/anchor.

I have a question. Everyone seems to rank Athena near the bottom, but to me she seems like one of those “swiss army knife” type characters that has a ton of tools and an answer for almost any situation. Maybe there’s something I’m missing, but given this, why does she seem to end up near the bottom so often?


#198

shes underrated for sure, or at least underused. she does a lot off an invincible grab, has good normals and can get away well. her weaknesses…her dp has a blind spot, making it hard to anti air at certain angles, so you have to move around a lot and use close D. her jump is floaty, so while her jump cd is very nice for air to air, she doesnt have a low jump pressure game to pair with her grab. i think the character has a lot of potential but no top players seem to like her.

as for king, it seems wasteful to put a character who’s main strength is zoning and poking 2nd or 3rd. she has to use her meter for anti-air ex trap shot or upkicks super, spending drives and bar for standard damage, vs the more popular 2nds and 3rds who can do half life with just a meter or two, sometimes without drive, or even come close to straight up killing with hd from 1 mistake. some of those same characters have strong meterless anti airs. you can see any hilevel tournament players always put her on point, i dont think anyone plays her 2nd or 3rd except for madkof but that dude is a little crazy lol


#199

So then, what exactly constitutes “good” damage?


#200

350 for 1 stock, 400-450 for 1 stock+1 drive, 500+ for 2 stocks + 1 drive, 750 for hd + 2 stocks, 850 for hd + 3 stocks, a bit less if started from a cr.B is my rule of thumb. a big key is being able to do significant damage without using drive and saving for hd, something that is very common for the stronger characters


#201

Robert meets or exceeds all of those.

1 meter:
[LIST]
[]cl.C, f.B, f.A [db]~f+BD, dp+C does around 340-50 Damage (does 390~ w/ jump-in)
[/LIST]
1+1:
[LIST]
[
](~30-45% screen from corner) cl.C f.B f.A dp+A (DC) qcf+P, db~f+BD, (optional) qcf+A, dp+C (461 / 425 dmg)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[](in or near corner) cl.C f.B f.A dp+C (DC) qcb+BD, qcf+P, dp+C (436 dmg)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
* cl.C f.B f.A dp+C (DC) qcb+BD, db~f+D (400 dmg)
[/LIST]
2+1:
[LIST]
[
]cl.C f.B dp+C (DC) qcb+D, qcf,hcb+AC (530+ dmg)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
* cl.C, f.B, dp+C (DC) qcb+BD, [db]~f+BD, qcf+A, dp+C (525 dmg)
[/LIST]
2+HD:
[LIST]
* cl.C f.B (HD) cl.C f.B dp+C(2) (DC) qcb+D, dp+A (DC) qcf+A, db~f+D (DC) qcb+K, dp+C (DC) qcf+C, DP+C (DC) qcf,hcb+BD (814 dmg)
* cl.C, f.B HD cl.C, f.B dp+C(2) (DC) qcb+D, dp+C (DC) qcf+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+K, dp+C (DC) qcf+C, dp+A (DC),qcb+K, dp+A (delay) qcfhcb+BD, fbf+K (840 dmg)
[/LIST]
3+HD
[LIST]
* cl.C f.B (HD) cl.C f.B dp+C(2) (DC) qcb+D, dp+A (DC) qcf+A, [db]~f+D (DC) qcb+D, dp+C (DC) fbf+BD (DC) qcfhcb+BD (878 dmg)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
* cl.C, f.B HD cl.C, f.B dp+C(2) (DC) qcb+D, dp+C (DC) qcf+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+K, dp+C (DC) qcf+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+K, dp+A (delay) qcfhcb+BD, qcf+A, fbf+BD, dp+A (899 dmg)
[/LIST]
And for shiggles…

4+HD
[LIST]
* cl.C, f.B HD cl.C, f.B dp+C(2) (DC) qcb+D, dp+C (DC) qcf+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+K, dp+C (DC) qcf+C, dp+A (DC), qcb+K, dp+A (delay) qcfhcb+BD, qcf+A, qcfhcb+AC (970+ dmg)
[/LIST]


#202

haha i guess numbers dont lie. i guess i just think of him that way, as a character that tends to not do damage. i.e., they have a weak mixup game in this case. for example, i consider mature a ‘weak damage’ character even though she does like 400+ with 1 drive 1 super…the damage is there, but getting it is another story. robert is a really weird case since all the tools are there…hes got a good cross up, a command grab, etc. it all comes down to ‘how are you going to hit the other guy’. in this case, robert’s cross up is slow because of his jump arc. his command grab, even ex has start up, small range, and no invincibility. you can look at any of the characters above him and see that most of them just have better offensive options.

btw that 1 meter combo wont work on crouchers and those midscreen hd combos dont work from just anywhere, its very possible to not reach the corner by the time you do the charge b,f+d to divekick which lowers the damage a lot. theres also a spot in the middle of the stage where you will reach the corner too early, but be too far to do the corner combo and you have to change it there too, a lot of liabilities for doing his hd midscreen. this has reminded me how fun his combos are though, i might use him more in the future