If the motion works, it works lol.
I can make a list of characters who make crack shoot whiff while crouching and not blocking, and also characters who are whiffing crouching b to make the move whiff, but it might take me a few days. although I own the game, I don’t exactly have access to an xbox at the moment, so be patient on that.
with that out of the way, time to bitch about the game’s strict inputs and my shitty execution. I can’t do some of terry’s most basic combos as consistently and easily as I’d like with a pad. cl. standing c into 3c is easy enough, but canceling 3c into special moves is a hella strict for some moves. you have to input the move you want to cance intol just as the 3c hits, and when it comes to canceling into power geyser on pad, I rage.
So, just to be clear on some things:
Terry’s st.C, df+C is a usual BnB starter that I’ve listed, but I didn’t mention something very important. When you do df+C, the cancel window is very, very small. You have to buffer the next special move or you’ll go into recovery frames for df+C really fast. This is important because sometimes you should just do st.C into your special move because it’s easier. Damage is great, but so is not dropping anything!
I noticed the wiki mentioned recently that you can’t combo st.C, df+C qcb+B on crouching opponents. I don’t know if df+c pushes crouching opponents too far or doesn’t do enough hit stun, but this certainly isn’t the case with cr.B, cr.A, cr.C qcb+B. despite the crack shoot not hitting saiki when he’s not blocking and crouching, the move will always connect when he’s in hitstun. you don’t have to worry about the move whiffing in combos.
so…I’m gonna remove that little bit from the wiki for now. I’ll test out the st.C, df+C combo thoroughly when I get the chance and modify it accordingly.
Yo Reiki Bogard…Thanks for the reply Burn K into Power G works like a charm it seems as if the missions just wants players to get use to cancels but some of them with Rising T into Power G seems really tight the one you’ve mentioned to me gave me more of a window and less likely to drop that combo! Keep this thread going for Bogard I’ll have my eye on this thread. Thanks again.
Any ways to combo* into* an EX Power Wave?
that move’s start up is extremely slow, so far, I haven’t found a way.
So whats good everyone. You all may have found this out already if not then this is for anyone reading this thread started by our own Reiki- then I’ll pass what little I know so far about our boy T. Bogard so far. If anyone is looking for a bread and butter combo during a drive which I’ll get to here’s what you can do: his standing strong close in basically combos into everything including, strong power wave except EX Power Wave, low burning knuckle, also power geysers any level, dual bang, busta wolf, but remember you gotta pull it off during his standing strong (the one where he hits you twice) also standing strong close in into a foward lp is a good three hit combination what that being said reapeat that process then go into drive mode repeat the three hit combination into low buring knuckle, into low crack shoot into whatever other cancels you may like or have done time and time again. But my main point is this is alot easier with a bigger window to pull off combo’s and specials, the only hard part is just getting close in. Now we all know that you can combo into standing strong but the seconds gets shorter and shorter but you still have enough time to go into drive mode or if you like whatever other options you like to get into with Terry vs doing it the way the missions want you. I hope this helps. Thanks!
So how and when to use it?
I’ve been using it when I’m getting my opponent towards the corner, countering reckless pokes and fireballs. It hits 3 times, negates other fireballs and still hits 3 times while doing it(Kyo,Kensou), and it seems to be a decent combo starter because you can pretty much do anything you want while it’s connecting, and it connects for while.
exactly what SF-Zero2 says. you want to chase the ex power wave after launching it; its both a zoning and rush down tool in one, since it recovers very quickly. use stuff like crack shoot or burn knuckle with it if you just want to set up strong line of zoning. I’m pretty sure you can also shoot another power wave while the ex is on screen, but that doesn’t have much application.
I usually use EX Wave if I scored a knocked down close range, once hit, I rush him/her down with a combo, Busta Wolf or Geyeser, but usually I try to combo once hit.
ok cool. thx for the help
I noticed this, now I know I wasn’t drunk when I was testing it. Thanks.
ok guys. two things: there’s an additional console change to Terry that wasn’t in the change list snkp gave us. you can max cancel both versions of power geyser. a naked ex power geyser into neomax does crazy high damage. mess with that. the wiki was also updated with that info.
next up: I made a list of all the characters who can dodge crack shoot by either croutching (not blocking), whiffing cr.b, and those who can’t do either.
Crouching (not blocking) : Ash, Saiki, Andy Mai, King, Yuri, Kula, Athena, Chin, Leona
Cr.B: Kyo Benimaru, Robert, Joe, Takuma, Iori, EX Iori, Mature Vice Elizabeth, Duo Lon, K’, Kensou
None: Daimon, Terry, Billy, Ryo, Shen, Kim, Hwa, Raiden, Ralf, Clark
Grand total: 23 characters have a method of making crack shoot whiff. with the two upcoming ex characters, that will be a total of 25 characters I am assuming. what a great move.
Yeah, still better than what it was in old games. I’m still very adverse to using Crackshoot as a pressure move and I think it’s a brainless thing to do. So pretty much doing a Crackshoot at the end of attack strings usually means you want to safely chip the opponent but means you’re willing to end your offensive momentum to do so (while there are still risks of certain characters beating it.) That means B Crackshoot is the option to go to ensure full safety, but there is no frametrap chance anymore, especially against characters with fast cl.C or command throws.
I’d rather stick to A version Power Waving and baiting out guard rolls in my attack strings while keeping momentum.
a few questions.
what do you mean that you “lose momentum” when you do a crack shoot in a block string to pressure? how does crack shoot lose momentum while power wave doesn’t (besides power wave being more reliable and generally safer). how do you catch a roll if your baiting with powerwave in block strings? can you provide an example?
you mention that there’s not frame trap “anymore”. are you referring to the previous versions of terry in older kof like 98 and 2k2, or the arcade version of XIII?
you say crack shoot is better than it was in the old games, but how so? just wondering.
Edit: I was also testing out the invincibility of terry’s moves. the only moves that have invincibility for sure, in order of more to less, are : C rising tackle, and ex rising tackle. I don’t know if ex buster wolf has any start up invincibility, or ex power geyser, since they come out so damn fast it was hard to counter. I don’t remember if ex buster wolf was stuffed (I need to test it more honestly) but I at least know if you hit terry out of ex power geyser, he will at least always trade with you in most scenarios, since his geysers come out even if you hit him.
but as far as invincible start up goes, C rising tackle has tons of invincible frames. EX version of the move has less so, but the move comes out faster than C. regular buster wolf MAY have some incicibility, but it is either my imagination, or it has VERY few invincible frames.
Well I interpret it this way (maybe it’s just an old way of thinking), but typically when Terry does Crack Shoot, he’s left in negative frames. Unless the opponent is crouch blocking against a D ver. Crackshoot to give Terry true frame advantage to frame trap, Terry will lose if he tries to cl.C after a blocked Crackshoot. B version has too much frame disadvantage on stand and crouch block and will lose to a true reversal cl.C/D. D version is better but has too many gaps where it could either be countered or on stand block he would still lose due to frame disadvantage. What’s good about the move though is that if someone guard rolls his blockstring at the moment of the 2-in-1, he moves forward outside of punishing range. Guard rolling a Power Wave pretty much guarantees a punish for the opponent.
The reason why I prefer power wave on block is that I’m left more or less at a neutral position where anything can go for Terry. Since Terry can poke the opponent outside of most character’s ranges with st.B, being at neutral after a power wave is at his advantage. Terry after Crack Shoot either has to be lucky, or do a gimmick such as blocked Crack Shoot > C Rising Tackle to hit someone out of a reversal cl.C that would otherwise limit Terry’s advancement and be put in reversal of momentum.
So when it comes to baiting out rolls, I don’t think Terry needs to commit to Crack Shoot that much. Terry could do attack strings such as st.B pressure that cancels into Power Wave, or tipping with st.B and then tipping with the sweep that cancels into Power Wave, or do any sort of blockstring into Power Wave. Terry could always safely mix up an attack string with a st.A to anti-air hops or do a sweep xx df.C to doubley cover space. So one of the better options to really punish Terry for his attrition is to make use of a good roll or guard roll; but, that is still a huge risk that Terry could just wait out for and either punish a roll or meaty and repressure an opponent after a guard roll. So in all these situations, Terry never gives up the pace and maintains his own without getting into the hairy mess after Crack Shoot that could either give or give up the advantage for Terry. It’s more solid and reliable.
The reason why I say Crack Shoot is better in this game than most of the older games is that it actually hits more crouchers now than in the past. It used to be mainly a weird anti-air/air-to-air attack in really specific situations. I mainly used it to cancel from df.C anti-air attempts to help better my position after the hit. Otherwise, it didn’t have much application since everything else did what it did but better. Now in KOF XIII, his moves (along with many other characters) are designed with better “intent.” Burn Knuckle is no longer the safe go to, braindead pressure move for combos and blockstrings. The player has to commit to a Burn Knuckle and make sure it hits. Crack Shoot is there for a safe pressure move that pretty much does all and is safe, but you lose frame advantage and momentum when used but has a chance of pressuring again if the opponent doesn’t block it correctly or punish it accordingly. Power Wave is the string ender that has the risk of losing to a guard roll but has the best position to continue pressure more consistently than compared to Burn Knuckle and Crack Shoot.
So with Terry, his moveset and pressure is done with a certain intent and choices have to be made when stringing with him. You commit to something but there is always another choice that has another pro but a different con. For me, I’d rather keep doing Power Waves until someone gets antsy to guard roll and wait for them to mess up and waste a bar rather than me committing to a more or less safe Crack Shoot but ending my pace and momentum.
In regards to invincibility, most level 1 supers in KOF don’t have it. So I doubt Buster Wolf has invulnerability unless you use the EX Version, which does have a good degree of it. Normal Buster Wolf is mainly for combos or I guess punishing something further out if Terry can’t run in there on time. I think EX Burn Knuckle might be faster for that application though, not so sure. Needs more testing.
But yeah to conclude, although Crack Shoot has gotten better for pressuring, I still think ultimately ending a blockstring with it each time is not in good fashion and that Power Wave is a better option. It’s just that the player has to play between the usages of both Crack Shoot and Power Wave and understand the risks and what is truly gained by doing that move.
B.Genma, I’ve posted your information on the original post. Thanks for testing that out! Even if crack shoot is considered “brainless”, it’s still an advantage that can lead to a guard crush if they block or a combo if they don’t. I think it’s an option to consider although switching up your strings to keep opponent’s guessing how to respond works too.
In the end, how you want to setup your opponent is up to you, but it’s always a good thing to think of what you’re capable of.
because its on the first post, I figured I should mentions that I made a small typo for the crack shoot list. on the cr.b row, I put kyo on there twice. the second kyo is actually supposed to be Joe. I fixed it on my original post.
and here’s something I was pondering about while watching the latest ranbats stream. do you guys think burn knuckle is any good at catching predictable jumps/hops? I’ve always used it to zone in that matter, and I have had some success. I know its not really safe to use naked burn knuckles on grounded opponents unless properly spaced, and the risk reward ratio is not in your favor either (unless you willing to burn up meter to convert to bigger damage) but I feel that burn knuckle can be a great spacing and zoning tool when used naked correctly. for example: I think there’s a lot of potential to catch players hoping over ex power waves with burn knuckle. a bit of theory fighter there, and needs more testing, but its something to think about.
also, how does his D crackshoot hold up as an antiair zoning tool? I liked using it in the garou games for such a purpose.