Kuniku's Progress

juri

#1

I’ve started myself a blog, youtube and twitchfor my street fighter progress (though i probably won’t twitch much until I move somewhere with better internet)

So I thought I’d see about some feed back on one of last nights fights. Bear in mind that I’ve not really played in a couple of weeks, due to my fiancee getting a PS4 and taking up most of the TV time, and I’m semi trying to avoid playing on PC until Ultra is out on it so I don’t get confused playing 2 different game versions.

I already critiqued this video on my blog, which I’ll include below, I’d be interested to hear both what I’ve got right and wrong on my critique. I’m not a overly high level player yet, but I’m learning! This is a new PSN account which I started last night to go with the blog/youtube/twitch etc so at this point was only my second fight. But on both my other PSN account and PC account I’m C ranked with Juri and tend to float around the 500-1000PP mark - I find I get to +1000PP and then get all eager, and play a load of games early the following morning and go on a huge losing streak and drop back down to 500 >_<

But anyway, here is the video and my critique:

Round 1, FIGHT!

I often tend to neutral jump against Shoto characters at the start, if they throw a fireball I can instantly punish with a dive kick. But this Evil Ryu player didn’t allow for that opening.

The dive kick I did do a few seconds later was semi dumb, I’m not sure if he purposefully faked the fireball motion, or just randomly crouched, but I fell for it and took the punish - Ultimately I should’ve stopped after the initial strike and probably would’ve been safe against the sweep.

Against his dive kick - I thought I could block it low, I was told by a Yun player that dive kicks don’t need to be blocked high - but took the hit and the follow up normals before low profiling his tatsu. Unfortunately the tatsu finished earlier than I expected so my sweep punish missed.

Jump back to reset and creat room. Immediately jumped forward over the fireball and punished with a dive kick. His jumping tatsu changed his jump trajectory somewhat, thought that my fireball would hit, but didn’t matter as I swept the landing, then traded with his wake up shoryuken.

Swap a few normals before he gets the hard knockdown. He starts charging for his focus attack far too early, seeing the attack come out before I’m up I managed to punish with Ultra 2.

Standard cross up at the end to finish the round.

Over all not a bad round, only a couple of pointless dive kicks, probably not enough fire balls - and possibly need to work out when it is safe to jump in or not - did get punished a couple of times on what I thought were going to be safe. Was also a few times I landed normals that I could’ve cancelled into specials, be it c.MP or c.MK - need to be faster with my hit confirms!

Round 2!

After my oponent not fireballing the first round, I thought I’d open up with my own this round, but got caught out and beaten by his EX fireball >_<

Followed it up with a neutral jump, did the MK divekick and not the LK, so whiffed that (that annoyed me more than it should’ve)

A few pointless divekicks, though some where just to get close, but still werent safe so ate punishes, and lots of attempted cross ups that went too far - need to work on that spacing when its not following a hard knockdown.

A late attempted dive kick punish against a fireball, but the excited 2nd and 3rd hits meant I avoided his punish and landed blocking.

Unsafe jump in got punished hard with a shoryuken, then was caught pressing buttons and ate a tatsu.

got a nice pinwheel in, then got a perfect cross up to c.MK and messed up the input on the EX pinwheel so ate a sweep to give him the round. The EX pinwheel would’ve hurt him quite a lot, and would’ve got me away from the corner. Then I could’ve fished for an Ultra perhaps - though my only Ultra setup is still the EX dive kick, and thats not always safe on block so probably still would’ve lost the round tbh.

Round 3 - It all comes down to this!

After the fireball eating last time, I went back to the neutral jump and it payed off, nice punish to start the round. Followed up by hitting his jump with a fireball.

bad jump in luckily wasn’t punished too hard, but again missed the hit confirm on the c.MP - should’ve got more damange off of that, but followed it up with a block then a sweep.

Again following the sweep thought the cross up would be safe, but got punished with a shoryuken =( Luckily he didn’t follow it up with much, jumped in too early and landed before I had got up then successfully punished his EX fireball with another dive kick.

Missed the cross up, but still got the c.MK - saw the hit and messed up the inputs for super, so it came out way to late and got me nothing but chip damage - normally that is a sure bet for me =/

Again didn’t follow up the c.MK with anything, but he fell (pun intended) for the following sweep. Not sure if it was luck on my part of just a bad read on his, but fortunately his Ultra 2 punish of my jump in. (Which is a shame because Evil Ryu’s Ultra 2 is one of my favourites to watch!)

I probably should’ve got a better punish, but by the time I landed he was already on his 3rd Shoryuken, and I only just managed to catch him with the end of a pinwheel =( But still, it is better than no punish at all I guess!

Baited out a fireball by throwing one at him and was fully ready to punish with the divekick. Nicely done I thought.

Riskily tried it again, but this time he went to jump over the fireball, but still ate the divekick to the face nicely to win me the round.

Pretty good round in all, just the missed super which bugged me really.

Your thoughts? Anything I missed?


#2

Stop jumping forward, especially against a shoto.
Stop divekicking unless you are punishing something. Ex dive might be acceptable if you needed to get in, but you don’t.
Stop punishing with sweep unless you’re too far away for anything else, or you have some nice setup after a hard knockdown. Cr.MK into pinwheel does more damage.
You don’t need to do something at the start of the round. Block and react.
Use stand LK more. Far LK is amazing and close LK is 3f.
Use stand MP more. Both versions are good. Close MP is 3f. 3f are good to use right after a crossup.
When you’re missing your crossups, try using LK instead of MK, at least you’ll make contact with them.

Learn Juri’s fireball and zoning game. You do not want to go in on Evil Ryu, or most of the cast for that matter. They want to get in, your job is to keep them out.

Evil Ryu’s divekicks can be blocked low. They’re hard to anti-air too. You can focus but they recover quickly. If he jumps at you, I like neutral jump MK.

End of round 2: should not have used meter on EX pinwheel when it was obvious you were going to lose.

Round 3: When he started his ultra, your first thought should be “how can I land behind him, but close enough to punish”. Instead you jumped again after you landed the first time. If you had just waited and dashed toward him, you could have gotten at least a poke into pinwheel.


#3

Thanks @Voidstar‌, certainly some stuff to work on! I know I’m supposed to zone, but for some reason enjoy going in on people - it is something on my mind to work on though.

I’ll make an effort to put LK and MP into the mix more, might try a few games over the weekend using just those as much as I can, try and drill it in.

Am I ok to dive kick fireball punishes? If that works do I then back up and continue the fireball game? Or try to stay in and get more damage there?

I guess I must’ve pressed something, but I was pretty certain I was just crouch blocking that dive kick that caught me, which is why I was confused why it got me =/

I guess you’re right with the EX pinwheel on round 2, I don’t like to just give up though and I generally find I don’t use my special bar enough, I just end up pooling it and not doing anything with it, so it was partly because I’ve been trying to make better use of it really.

The extra jump was actually me thinking I’d been caught in the Ultra lol, it wasn’t intentional xD

Thanks for the tips though! I’ll aim to get some more games on YouTube over the weekend after working on some of those bits and bobs!


#4

Your fireball punishes were good and pretty consistent, keep that up. What you do afterward depends on the matchup and spacing. Storing a fireball and zoning again is almost never a bad idea, but if you end up close enough to do some corner pressure that could be good.

Also remember EX divekick into U2 is a nice fireball punish.


#5

EX Dive Kick to U2 was my go to in AE, but I’ve found the extra inputs are making me miss the timing a lot in Ultra, need to spend more time in the lab worknig on adjusting my timing somewhat to land it more consistantly.

Thanks for the tips though =)


#6

This ended up getting really wordy the more I thought about it, so sorry about that. :stuck_out_tongue:

Resist the urge to jump as a main movement tool. I like just zoning out in training mode working on back dashing and forward dashing (a highly underrated usage of training mode time). Stick movement is an invaluable tool in Street Fighter, and if you watch any top player of any character, this is where the foundation of their game starts. It’s good to make this a habit, because Juri is special in how she can dash under certain fireballs, and even more things when using Ultra 1 (get rekt, Vega’s Sky High Claw! lol). A Juri player that doesn’t jump often is scarier than one that does.

Voidstar is right, you messed up when the U2 missed you, but with that in mind, you can look at this replay as a reference for where you can be on screen and know that that particular Ultra is going to miss you after the freeze. Take the screen freeze when the Ultra is popped to assess what you’ll be doing in response should the Ultra miss. If it seems like you’re out of it, you can be more prepared to start dashing to punish.

A good use of your time in training mode might be to have the dummy throw fireballs, and work on divekicking over them as close to the ground as possible. There were a few times where you didn’t think about the divekick until it was too late and he blocked it. If you can build the habit of IA divekicking fireballs, that’s practically free sizable damage that the opponent can’t eat more than a couple times. When it comes to the followup attacks, resist the temptation to mash if you don’t believe it was guaranteed to begin with. That’s where IA divekicking on reaction can tighten up your consistency.

I’d avoid Juri’s sweep for now. It’s -9 on block, and if this E.Ryu player was good, you’d have been swept it or confirmed into a massive FADC combo that Juri can’t really afford to take. cr.MK is a safer option for you, and can be confirmed into way more damage than a connected sweep can. It is minus on block too, but much less, and if in close it can be made safe with low Fuhajin store as a blockstring (which is +).

You mentioned that you felt like you were building up a lot of meter, but not using it, well you can be a little more liberal in meter usage since Juri naturally is one of the faster meter builders in the game. On a fair amount of E.Ryu’s jump ins, you could have either cr.MP antiaired, or used some of the meter you had to high EX Fuhajin (LK + HK) and dash LK pinwheel or EX on the juggle. Juri also benefits from having an easily confirmable cr.MK. If you had LK Fuhajin stored, then you could cr.MK > LK Fuhajin release xx FADC into whatever you wanted. (common ones are cl.MP xx HK Pinwheel; cr.MP xx HK Pinwheel; there are many more, but those are just a couple that are easy to link–especially online)

You don’t necessarily have to do something at the start of the rounds, but typically, a neutral jump is mostly a good choice, or just wait until you see a fireball startup so you can up-leg it. If you don’t feel confident about the upleg, you can MP counter on reaction to get full screen to zone and have an Ultra meter lead from the start.

For Ultra 2, you can get into it by doing all the followup EX hits like in AE, or just do a single hit (EX) and Ultra since that is possible from 3/4 screen now. The rule of thumb on the timing after the followup hits is that you activate the second you see the opponent start to arc downward after the wall bounce. If you wait until they have officially begun to drop, you missed it. It’s hard to hit that juggle online for just about any Juri of any skill level so don’t feel too bad if you aren’t 100% on it (online at least). Big Nasty Kail missed it once in his GDP series which was pretty funny.


#7

Haha No Problem @nosloandy‌, the more help the better! I’ll address the points below :slight_smile:

Resist the urge to jump as a main movement tool. I like just zoning out in training mode working on back dashing and forward dashing (a highly underrated usage of training mode time). Stick movement is an invaluable tool in Street Fighter, and if you watch any top player of any character, this is where the foundation of their game starts. It’s good to make this a habit, because Juri is special in how she can dash under certain fireballs, and even more things when using Ultra 1 (get rekt, Vega’s Sky High Claw! lol). A Juri player that doesn’t jump often is scarier than one that does.

I’ll admit I’m not as comfortable as I probably should be doing dashes, so I probably do need practice - especially getting the timing right to go under fireballs!

Voidstar is right, you messed up when the U2 missed you, but with that in mind, you can look at this replay as a reference for where you can be on screen and know that that particular Ultra is going to miss you after the freeze. Take the screen freeze when the Ultra is popped to assess what you’ll be doing in response should the Ultra miss. If it seems like you’re out of it, you can be more prepared to start dashing to punish.

Yeh, I’ll know for next time not to count myself out, as I said - when he popped the ultra I thought I’d been tagged and had lost the round pretty much - the extra jump was just because I was wiggling the stick not paying attention any more lol

A good use of your time in training mode might be to have the dummy throw fireballs, and work on divekicking over them as close to the ground as possible. There were a few times where you didn’t think about the divekick until it was too late and he blocked it. If you can build the habit of IA divekicking fireballs, that’s practically free sizable damage that the opponent can’t eat more than a couple times. When it comes to the followup attacks, resist the temptation to mash if you don’t believe it was guaranteed to begin with. That’s where IA divekicking on reaction can tighten up your consistency.

So improving the timing and reactions on fireball punishes and dashing under the fireballs it is then =D

How much of a gap is there between seeing if the dive kick connected to then inputting the commands to do the second and third strikes?

I’d avoid Juri’s sweep for now. It’s -9 on block, and if this E.Ryu player was good, you’d have been swept it or confirmed into a massive FADC combo that Juri can’t really afford to take. cr.MK is a safer option for you, and can be confirmed into way more damage than a connected sweep can. It is minus on block too, but much less, and if in close it can be made safe with low Fuhajin store as a blockstring (which is +).

And I don’t have the risk of falling to an auto correct wakeup DP when I try and cross over - c.MK it is!

You mentioned that you felt like you were building up a lot of meter, but not using it, well you can be a little more liberal in meter usage since Juri naturally is one of the faster meter builders in the game. On a fair amount of E.Ryu’s jump ins, you could have either cr.MP antiaired, or used some of the meter you had to high EX Fuhajin (LK + HK) and dash LK pinwheel or EX on the juggle. Juri also benefits from having an easily confirmable cr.MK. If you had LK Fuhajin stored, then you could cr.MK > LK Fuhajin release xx FADC into whatever you wanted. (common ones are cl.MP xx HK Pinwheel; cr.MP xx HK Pinwheel; there are many more, but those are just a couple that are easy to link–especially online)

Generally I’ve been trying to use EX Pinwheel more, and if I get into Ultra range I try to keep a couple of bars to fish for dive kicks to score the Ultra - Combos still tend to be a issue for me, i struggle to get the timing off links, so I’ve not really started trying to learn FADC’s yet tbh

You don’t necessarily have to do something at the start of the rounds, but typically, a neutral jump is mostly a good choice, or just wait until you see a fireball startup so you can up-leg it. If you don’t feel confident about the upleg, you can MP counter on reaction to get full screen to zone and have an Ultra meter lead from the start.

Upleg practice could be an idea too, I’ve tried it before and can usually get it ok in the lab, but usually get hit online, not sure if its because of that extra latency or what, hadn’t thought about going for the counter at the start.

For Ultra 2, you can get into it by doing all the followup EX hits like in AE, or just do a single hit (EX) and Ultra since that is possible from 3/4 screen now. The rule of thumb on the timing after the followup hits is that you activate the second you see the opponent start to arc downward after the wall bounce. If you wait until they have officially begun to drop, you missed it. It’s hard to hit that juggle online for just about any Juri of any skill level so don’t feel too bad if you aren’t 100% on it (online at least). Big Nasty Kail missed it once in his GDP series which was pretty funny.

I could nail it 90% of the time in super, but for some reason having to do the inputs for the second and third strikes throws off my timing for the rest of it - just need to practice it in the lab some more (along with everything else I guess)


#8

An extra question - Gouken, fought a couple recently, and I tend to struggle, he seems to be able to outzone me =/ his fireball recovery seems fast enough that I can’t dive kick punish as he can just anti air fireball as I come in, or catch me with his newly buffed tatsu thing. Is that still a fireball war I can win with Juri?


#9

@Kuniku‌ That’s tricky. Gouken is a real problem character for me too, and it usually has to do with any Gouken player who goes nuts. I discovered recently that his high fireball clips Juri’s foot on the upleg at certain ranges too.

I don’t know a lot about that matchup though overall tbh, because I only see one online very occasionally for some reason and none of my friends play him. I can’t remember if you can antiair his demon flip. The thing that always gets me is when trying to read a fireball with divekick and getting met with the upward tilt one instead. You can punish the regular one if you IA divekick it, but it needs to be more of a read than on the shotos where you can be reactionary.

so if anything, don’t jump, tech his back throw, and most his specials are super punishable.

The gap is not that long, but you’ll probably get used to it over time. The best method is just to know the punish. E.Ryu’s fireball recovery is really bad, so as long as you know that, and the lenience in which you have time to react, confirming it is a lot easier. If you do miss, it’s not horrible just be wary if you felt like you didn’t make it in time. Even if you did make it, but missed the followups, you still gained a soft knockdown, and hopefully sent the message that you can reaction-punish fireballs.

I try to reserve EX pinwheel as a final “get off me” when starting to get mauled. I play Ultra 1 usually though, so immediately after, I start FSE. I’m unwilling to finish combos with EX unless I know it will end the game. EX pinwheel is too valuable an asset for its invincibility frames. Besides, you still get a mixup whether you ended the combo with EX or not, so why waste the meter. EX is fantastic in FSE because you can cl.MP to reset into another mixup (dash under overhead, or front overhead, or attacking low, or a number of things).

For combo linking, there isn’t much to do but try to get them out both consistently in training, and in actual matches. The fuhajin combos in the corner are a decent starting point (like: cr.MK xx Fuhajin release > cr.MK xx HK Senpusha). These are good because you are really only ever hitting 3 buttons in the whole combo and releasing one all while practicing 2 easy links. then you can move onto things like cr.LK > st.LP > cr.MP xx HK Senpusha; and later, the stuff with tighter links like cr.LK > st.LP > (1 frame link) cr.HP > HK Senpusha. Dropping combos is common, and you might lose games trying, but it has to be done to gain that comfort.


#10

Thanks again @nosloandy‌!

This guy was pretty much just throwing fireballs out, I did manage to get a round each time, and think I did beat him once because he decided to come in. He just seemed to have better tools for keeping me out (at my level anyway, higher level Juri’s might be able to beat out his fireball game with upleg absorbs and then releasing to win the fireball war?) Annoyingly he didn’t seem overly good, if I did manage to get in he’d panic and take a ton of damage, but his fireballs seemed to come out fast enough that I struggled to get past them was all.

Is EX pinwheel not worth it for the extra damage then? Would I be better off doing EX fireballs more instead while zoning? I do quite often try EX pinwheel on wakeup, sometimes pays off sometimes doesn’t =p

I definitely see the benefits of Ultra 1, I just think you need to be able to pull of the combos to make the most of it - which I definitely can’t do yet, so I stick to Ultra 2, for now at least.

I’ll try out some of those combos for sure though!


#11

@Kuniku‌

I won’t say that EX pinwheel isn’t useful as a combo ender, but I will say that in most cases, I find it to be not the best choice until the opponent health is within KO range. Also keep in mind that in USFIV it’s finally a solid antiair option. It gets used as a combo ender in a couple places like with jumping MP air to air into cl.HP xx EX pinwheel if you didn’t know that one.

You could try using the EX bar for fireballs.

The EX bar can also be used when fishing for a hit. Some people will break up their fuhajin block string by throwing an EX one right behind the regular fuhajin to try an catch them pressing a button or backdashing. Ultimately though, I’d recommend just watching other players in how they use their meter. It seems mostly personal preference and dependent on what the player is looking for. WeirdoNeo will use his meter much differently than J RO5E or saixhinata.

Hopefully I’m not making this sound set in stone, Juri has much less of a flow chart than other characters. There’s only one requirement really and that’s to find as many ways to store a fireball safely since sizable damage depends on having one stocked.


#12

Ah ok @nosloandy‌!

I know a lot of people save it for FADC, but I’m not quite there yet, so I’ll try using more EX fireballs and see how that goes =)


#13

Gouken is one of my favorite matches, largely because his fireballs are the easiest to dash under. Get the timing down and you can just dash forward anytime he throws a fireball. From there I like to put on some pressure, depending on what they do. Throws beat his counters, or you can do safe jumps to beat wakeup EX tatsu. I think Juri’s pokes generally win (aside from Gouken’s amazing sweep). His demon flip can be dealt with but antiairs are risky. The divekick is hard to antiair, and the parry will eat it and he can punish. I think jump forward MP x divekick might be the best option. Haven’t tested that though.

You can also win the fireball game, same as most fireball games, you have to get your low fireballs in under theirs without getting hit. Use fireball store to absorb incoming fireballs, and storing LK and MK at once is useful. It is pretty hard to divekick punish Gouken’s fireballs, but not impossible. The thing is, you always have to wait and see what fireball comes out before you jump. It’s easier and safer to not even try jumping.