La Nueva Discussion de Match Ups "Empezando Adonl" Updated Post 5 04-19-2011



Details please, OS people can do against you, OS you can do against them. Moves that beat yours and moves that beat thier most useful specials/normals. Call out bullshit on anything, but give reason as to why don’t just say cuz. If you don’t agree with a certain approach like being passive vs character X, put up a tactic and explain why. The more details the better the match up guide, the better for all. Will post one character at a time to make sure all of them are covered. No bullshit, if youre going to flame at least provide information the is being discussed as well. No socialising none of that. K thanks by, one more thing, this will happen only if you guys want it to happen.

Post #2 = list moves that can be punished/tactics by both characters when posted in single posts will be reposted on post #2
Post #3 = Old information from other threads that needs to be nit picked if needed.
Post #4 = OS?
Post #5 = current restructerd match up guide all put in format proposed by Francys.

Posts #2-5 will constantly change and be deleted to accommodate the new discussion at hand.

I know other non Vega users may frequent this thread, if you see anything that may be wrong regarding your mains character feel free to have a say.

**updated Post #5 with nuisances and wake up options against Abel. **


[details=Spoiler] Adon ???
Matchup difficulty ?|?
Adon- I don’t know much about Adon’s move properties and how they really factor into the matchup vs. Vega. Seems like there will be little point for Adon to use his wall dives outside of punishing poorly maneuvered and unsafe FBAs. Adon is really pesky up close, incessant, with c. short into the jaguar kick, and a pretty slow overhead. Footsies here will be some of the most interesting in the game. Don’t be fooled by Adon’s specialty; which is slow startups on a lot of moves, but really quick recovery. Often it will be him making the first move, but at times it’ll be easy for him to bait you because even if you react and punish with something you might not make it in time. IE, sweep, he might bait it with something as heavy as a st. RH. It?s got great range, can hang with the most of Vega’s pokes but Vega will still have the edge, ultimately. Abuse c. mp and c. mk. Adon can’t combo for shit. Up close he’ll probably mix you up something fierce with his overhead, rising jaguar and general shenanigans with the jaguar kick. He won’t be able to punish you at all with most of his jaguar tooth shenanigans as Vega’s footsies are faster than some and really, you shouldn’t be mashing pokes anyway and it’s easy to tell when that move is coming: it has a huge start up, even the EX one. Adon is kind of tough to grasp. Seems solid in general, but not really a punisher like Vega cause he sucks so much at comboing on the fly. Much better up close than Vega though, and he is highly capable of a rush down because of great walk speed. You should crouch a lot, but react to his overhead since it’s so damn slow. If you crouch he literally will not be able to hit confirm into anything more than 150 damage since rising jaguar whiffs. He’ll be tough to pin down. IMO this will be the most interesting of Vega’s new matchups. Lots of flying around and generally I think the matchup will boil down to outsmarting Adon on defense. It’s not as simple as “out poking” Adon because he has good pokes and can out maneuver you very easily with jaguar kick in the air, but you will have to expose Adon’s lack of comboability. I don’t know the properties on either Jaguar Tooth or Kick but I think they are unsafe, maybe not unsafe enough to be thrown.
Any wall dive by Adon = Free U2, no matter which strength it is. Any Jaguar kick block string = free reversal, but beware that that is how Adon baits stuff out. Otherwise he will chip and always prevent you from jumping out. Your best bet is to stand still, react, and press HK to react to Jaguar Kicks. Those do 130 damage, that’s a lot. big threat, don’t eat them.
Adon crosses you up all day. Either Neutral jump to throw him off as he’s crossing you up and say fuck off or you just have to sit there. His jump is so fast and moves so quick you are pinned down pretty efficiently usually. His tick throw game is problematic as is the fact he can mix up with rising jaguars… Adon is REALLY strong on offense. In most cases you should sit and block. Block low cause his sweep is really fast but block jaguar kicks high cause that makes them have worse frame disadvantage on block. his overhead, just hit him, it’s start up is really slow. normally it’s better to use outside of most chars’ ranges but Vega?s range > Adon’s range on his overhead. just hit him.
FBA’s are avoidable by his fdash, and in most cases a rising jaguar. He can punish you pretty easily but you also can’t vortex him. FBA is kind of useless in this match, he’s simply too quick and nimble to grab. In most cases you have to keep him pinned to the ground as his backdash is shit and no threat to Vega’s range and otherwise he will be beat by your neutral jump attacks if you’re doing them right. he can poke you with st. rh and remember that his start ups are slow but recovery is fast so if you want to bait his stuff you have to be reacting well or else you’re getting nothing accomplished.[/details]


moves that can be punished by Adon in Super and AE

by Ultra 2

By Ultra 1

Moves that Vega can Punish from Adon in Super and AE


Random Adon Bits from old strats this thread feel free to pick and choose what still applies.


reserved 3


Matchup Difficulty:
**Recommended Ultra:

****Fundamental Essentials (Core Basics, Empirical part of Match up that does not really change regardless of player)**:
**-Pokes: **


Vega to Adon

Adon to Vega

-Anti-airs (most benificial):**

-Option Selects:

-Okizeme/Wakeup games:**
Safe Jumps

-Effective playstyles):

-Things that don’t work, specific nuisances:

**General Strategy (Abstract, varies against players):



I’ll have to call out Vegaman’s ignorance on Abel’s ultra 2. It has a healthy list of moves it can punish against Vega. I don’t remember the full list offhand, but I am pretty sure of the following.
-instant overhead jump back fierce on hit or block
-Wall dives from any point of the screen

Feel free to add to that list


can punish

sky high claw
blocked cr.hp
blocked st.hp
blocked slide

once we complile data ill make the changes to the spoiler and post it in of the reserved posts to see if we are at an agreement as well.


Last Updated 3-26-2011

The Wiki will be a great place to put this info once we’re done. We can more easily compile and discuss it here. Thanks for taking the lead on this thread Pedo. Here’s some personal Abel research:


backthrow to immediate safejump MP


Works great, the only thing it loses to is EX.TornadoThrow (and you also need to have the claw). After MP you can block Abel’s reversal U1, and also his EX.CoD which you can stuff after the j.MP if you decide to follow up with a 4 or 5-frame move as you land. If he reversals with U2, you need to beat it with a counter-reversal ST or U2 (doesn’t matter if he delays it). If you empty jump (not pressing MP), EX.TornadoThrow will still grab you if you try to jump or BackDash as you land. However, with good timing, a KKK Flip at the end of the empty jump will avoid the EX.Tornado and you can punish it with U1 or U2 or EX-FBA even after the flip (plenty of time to charge it as you are jumping). If you want to OS Abel’s other escape options, cr.HK will kill his backdash as will df.HK but neither of these will let you punish his EX.MarseillesRoll and he can’t punish you either if he does that. You can option select with a grab to beat his EX.MR, but this will break your charge so in the event that the j.MP touches him, your best hit confirm will be st.LK into cr.HP after the OS throw.

How’s that? Every little thing could probably be expanded to a video. This stuff will go as deep as you want to take it.

meaty ground normals into LP.RCF

[details=Spoiler]This type of combo is useful for shutting down Abel’s wakeup CoD option, since it has armor and needs 2 quick hits to break (linking normals just from the ground is too slow): * LP.RCF will stuff EX.CoD from far away, such as after a (nearly) max range cr.HK knockdown. Besides EX.TT, Abel can avoid being touched by the cr.MK by backdashing, EX.MR, and EX.WheelKick. Sticking an OS onto the end of cr.MK does not work well here, but you can stay crouched and react to EX.MR and EX.WK when the LP.RCF doesn’t come out. You can’t catch the backdash with this setup except rarely with OS cr.MP, which will lose to EX.MR but not EX.WK (you can still grab EX.WK’s recovery after the OS cr.MP). * LP.RCF will stuff EX.CoD from point blank, but wont even combo from farther away. However, at the end of meaty cr.LP you can place an OS kara throw with awesome results. It grabs Abel’s backdash, his EX.MR, and the cr.LP stuffs his EX.WK. Try using negative edge to when doing the cr.LP to LP.RCF because it will free up your fingers to quickly do the kara throw OS.

With either of the above, if Abel does a wakeup U2 you can break it with ST if you charge fast (the LP.RCF won’t come out, so you can cancel your normal with ST after the ultra freeze). You will either block or stuff his U1.[/details]

Miscellaneous Abel Matchup Notes

[details=Spoiler]jumpback.HP Vega’s instant overhead works good on Abel. You must be close but the timing isn’t too strict and it hits him even when he crouches. If he is quick, Abel can punish on hit or block with his U2, and on block can dash in and frame trap you with a cr.LP

comboing into MP.RCF If Abel is standing, MP.RCF will combo off of a close j.HP into If Abel is crouching it will combo more easily off of,, and cr.MK. (This jump-in combo does 4 more damage and 32 more stun than j.HP * * HP.RCF)

df.HK * HK.ST * super If Abel is cornered and you land a df.HK, comboing HK.ST into super is a tiny bit more lenient than usual (still hard) and will get you 66 more damage and 50 less stun than df.HK * EX.ST.[/details]


I could help in cleaning them up into little articles themselves. I was working on it on my blog. Since I have a fair bit of Vega vs Dudley knowledge that I could contribute. Only if you wanted it anyway…

I also really liked somewhat how the Guy boards set theirs out. It makes it a lot easier on the eyes. I modded it a little but:

Matchup Difficulty:

Recommended Ultra:


  • Pokes:
  • Punishes:
  • Anti-airs:
  • Option Selects:
  • Okizeme/Wakeup games:
  • Effective playstyles (Keepaway, rushdown, mix of both? zoning? some work better than others in some cases):

Things that don’t work (EG combos that whiff, like sometimes, cr.lp, crmp will miss on Sakura):

General Strategy:


Just as I side note, I’m gonna post what I know about his towards medium kick, since I feel this is a big part of Abel’s arsenal, and something that can wreck your shit hard. If I’m wrong about something, correct me. If I forgot something, do add it yourself. The more you know, the better eh?

This is all assuming that you block the (durr), dash, cl.hp (3 frame gap)
Backdash (second hit on hp will tag you)
Reversal ST
backflip (will make cl.hp whiff, but he recovers before you do and he will punish hard)
All of your normals*
loses to:
U2 (note: just because it beats him doesn’t mean it’s a viable option)

*The first hit on Abel’s cl.hp will not hit a crouching Vega, unless you are blocking. As such, you can block the crouching, go into down instead of downback, and make the first hit of his cl.hp whiff, giving you plenty of time to stick in a, dash, TT (4 frame gap)
All of your normals (not sure, but shouldn’t it?)
loses to:
reversal ST, dash, ~ (4 frame gap)
throw (techs it)
backdash (sweeps it)
any normal slower than 4f
loses to:
4f normals (trades)
reversal ST

I know there’s more to it, but I just felt I had to post this when reading that Vega vs Abel is 6-4 because Vega can dash, jump and flip. Abel can kill you for doing that.


I did a writeup on the Rufus match awhile back. It’s not complete, but it’s a good start. There are things that could be improved upon, e.g., a list of Rufus’ moves that are punishable on block.

I’ve spent a lot of time lurking on the Vega pages the last year or so. So I owe you guys something. I am not an expert with Vega, but I greatly enjoy playing him.

(As an aside, I disagree with everyone who said that it would have sucked to have invincibility frames on EX ST. Also, I apparently under-utilized CH because I didn’t realize it was so useful. I liked it for punishment and to offensively close space. I, however, really enjoyed the spirited debate on both issues. You guys are awesome.)

**Rufus **

Overall Game Plan

Opponent wants to dive kick and initiate combo mixups (block strings and throws). Vega has no reversal. So it is important to avoid this situation. Vega has a significant reach advantage with his normals and scarlet terror can hit Rufus out of the air if done early enough. This is a footsies fight with an emphasis on defense.

**Primary strategy **

(1) Keep Him Out. Abuse st.HK to keep Rufus on the ground and to punish his cr.HP poke. Mix in cr.MP, cr.MK, st.MK. Don?t be caught standing still or charging down/back very often. If you are charging, it better be because you anticipate the need to do a scarlet terror. Be wary of EX Messiah Kick once he gets frustrated.

(2) Something went wrong - He Got In. Use an assortment of blocking, back dash, back slash, and ultra II to get out of dive kick pressure. These are in order of reliability and risk. You can?t mash crouch tech because dive kick baits and beats it. Getting predicable with the escape option = death. After you escape, immediately resume #1 above.

*It’s really this simple. Vega was designed to make the opponent die a death of a thousand cuts. *

**Vega’s Special Moves: **

FBA/ID not to be relied upon. A good Rufus should do nj.HK and turn it into a nasty combo. Further missing the ID plays right into Rufus?s hands ? it brings Vega close and at a disadvantage. Finally, if Rufus uses ultra II, then it equals death.

SHC ? same as FBA; not worth risk because it brings Vega right to Rufus with a disadvantage and with very little to gain. Dies on ultra II. Crossup EXSHC also probably not worth it, but can be used after head spinning mixup.

ST - useful anti-air, but it’s a liability to charge for it. You need to stay on the move. Remember this is a footsie fight.

RCF/EXRCF ? Uncertain of its utility. Need to experiment.

FA - Uncertain of its utility. Need to experiment.

Ultra II is best because it is useful to get out of wakeup and divekick pressure. Also, be prepared to use it after blocking Rufus’ ultra I, ultra II, ______, ______, ______, ______.


lol , while i spent time thinking about what to write , you wrote a bit. I’ll post what I was going to post anyway.

This thread is what we need on this board. None of that idle socialising shit.

Let me post some quick points about Abel , I play a very good Abel regularly so I have some stuff to say.First things first , pedo , you said somewhere that cr.HP stuffs jf.MK from Abel. I disagree , most times , when I try cr.HP I get stuffed , and then the Abel can land , walk forward and tt me or something.

Carrying on from that point , I use st.HK as my go to anti air in this match. It beats all possible jumpins , even jf.lp which Abels like to use sometimes. It can also be used on reaction to beat EX CoD , which is a great momentum killer.

When I play this matchup , basically I just stay by my super bar , and try and turtle / harass the Abel player into making bad decisions (such as random EX CoD) , although it’s harder said than done. When I do get dragged into offense , I like to mix up with kara throws , and a lot of nj.MK/CH to bait and punish EX TT , for example , CH > nj.MK (abel attempts TT) and then cr.MK , cr.MP xx EX walldive.

Now that I’ve said that , I’m going to share what I know on the Rufus matchup. I have a shitload of experience this since I play two good Rufus players a lot offline on a near - daily basis.

Francys , I’m going to use the format you suggested (but I will omit option select because that’s not my strong suit , outside of basic safe jump os).




Matchup Difficulty:

This matchup can be a tough one , one of the worst if you don’t play particularly well. When I first started playing rufus’ players I used to scream shit like, “this shit is 8-2 , 7-3”. But really , with smart play and some good reads , it’s 6-4 or 5.5-4.5. It doesn’t help that we don’t have a reversal and he can do GT > Ultra 1 on us midscreen , but at least in AE he can’t punish our walldives with U2.

Recommended Ultra
Splendid Claw in this match without fail. Rufus is the only character where I can reliably land anti-air CH > U2 (on a dive kick). Not only that , but it punishes all options after a blocked messiah (without FADC of course) The timing for this is awkward , but once you do it a few times you’ll get a feel for it. It also lets you get out of a few situations and anti airs jump ins and dive kicks that weren’t low enough.


I don’t think this matchup encourages the use of a particular win-button poke like boxers st.LP in the Boxer - Abel match , however I do think that in general , you do want to be able to throw st.MK at max is also good to stuff dives in this match , but I have been punished for getting carried away with it at close range.

On the advice of rufus players , what I’ve started to do is mash it during dive kick strings, as it stuffs dives , and sometimes trades with st.LK after a dive kick , which means I can do another st.HK for a 3 hit combo.


If Rufus does cr.HP or cr.HK that’s not at max range or just inside it , you can easily punish with cr.MP xx EX walldive. If you’re fast , you can do Ultra 2 , but my reactions arent up to that.

If Rufus does a Messiah and doesn’t FADC it , you can punish with U2 as I mentioned earlier (this beats all of his follow-up options, although I find the timing is weird , and I have to do a more precise input than I usually do). You can do also HK or EX ST to punish the options , although I think ST trades in your favour when it’s the overhead follow up , not entirely sure though.

If Rufus does a Messiah and FADC backdashes , If you have charge , you can U2/EX Walldive/ST. If not , you can slide , or st.HP (I prefer HP because it gets him off you)

EX GT is (apparently) punishable with EX ST and U2 in between the spin and the actual part of the move that hits , but I’ve never done it myself.


As usual with Vega , he doesn’t have one or two go to anti-airs for any situation that arises , instead he has many anti airs for many different situations.

nj.MK beats high dive kicks that are at the apex of the jump or just coming down.

nj.MP beats jump ins that are just after the top of the jump , this will cleanly stuff the start of a Rufus j.HP and j.HK.

st.HK beats close dive kicks and late j.hp , however your opponent can mix this up with a late j.HK.

Air throw is the most generic anti-air for this match , beats everything , but it’s hardest to setup safely , and if you mistime it you often find yourself in a bad situation.

EX ST beats dive kicks cleanly (not on wakeup).

Safe Jumps:

Our go-to backthrow > jf.MP allows us to safely land and punish EX messiah and both Ultras. EX Snake Strike causes the jf.MP to whiff , but you can safely land , slide and then combo when the Rufus lands. I’m yet to meet a Rufus who’s tried EX GT on this safe jump , but I’m sure Deuy’s great thread on this safejump (search the forum) will have the answer.

This matchup also allows us to use the safe jump after EX Walldive. After I land an EX Walldive , I mash on and jump in with jf.HK as soon as it is finished. This safe jump allows us to safely land and punish EX Messiah and both Ultras. I need to test this on EX Snake Strike and EX GT , though.

Also , since his backdash is rather slow , you can Option select it with CH for a free combo.


(I’ve never been completely sure of what this term means , but I gather it is mixup , so I’ll discuss both our and Rufus’ options in this section.)

Rufus has 3 main situations he can get you into quite easily , so I’ll cover those and our options in those situations.

  1. Dive kick mixup.

This is just a bare bones outline of the mixup so forgive me for omitting anything.

After a blocked dive kick , Rufus can :

Do another dive kick to beat throw attempts and crouch tech. EX ST and HK both beat this option , and so does a backdash. jb.HP and HK also beat this.

Do a cr or st.LK to set up tick pressure. Vega cannot do anything about this as far as I know , it’s like a true string on him. It stuffs all of our options and I don’t think there is enough time to ultra in between the dive kick and the light kick.

Do a Messiah kick to beat anything you do.

Or just do any combo ending in HP GT , because he’s relatively safe after that , and it sets up another mixup in itself.

  1. After GT:

Another mixup Rufus players can regularly employ is after a string ending in HP GT. After a HP GT , they are at -1 and therefore relatively safe.They can mix you up here.

After a blocked GT, Rufus can:

**cr.LP **. This is the equivalent of a 5 frame jab in this case , but if you block it , the Rufus can start pressuring you again. Here , a st.HK beats it cleanly and gives you a counter hit.

Messiah. This beats any button press you do , so you best option is to block , or neutral jump , but of course when you start blocking or neutral jumping , the Rufus player can punish it or throw you.

**Dive Kick/nj.HK **. This happens when you start blocking in fear of Messiah , but a well timed backdash can avert danger here.

  1. After EX Messiah > FADC

After a blocked EX Messiah , Rufus can dash forwards , and has a few options.

He can throw , to beat blocks and slower normals

He can divekick to beat techs

He can messiah to beat anything other than blocking

He can even overhead.


Don’t forget you can use spoiler tags!

this is a spoiler



[spoiler=this is a spoiler]example[/*spoiler]

Remove the ‘*’

Good job pedo and the gang! :tup:


Keep in mind that we are doing one character at a time, and the one posted. To ensure accurate information. Ill save the Rufus stuff but we are/will do the newest addition on the spoiler tag.

edit: keep in mind chuck that cr.hp as a AA against Abel is range specific ranges where won’t work or its to late for it to be used. It whiffs at max range and you have to make him land on Vega’s fist. Other wise it fails completly.

edit 2: @ Jay or anybody

Just contribute or say anything if you fee like something is amis or questioning something. If you know how to block and think for a second then you are more than welcome to post anything no matter how ludicrous.

edit 3:

We can do vids, but can if we do submit vids can we have either
a)Vega gets raped so we know what not to do and tools a characters can abuse against Vega and take not
b)very close games
c)Vega raping opponents because of excellent play, not brain dead play that is raping the village idiot (so if its a vid of say Makoto playing somebody and the opponent loses because he doesn’t know what to do, the vid won’t be beneficial.)


Gulfguden god status on the Abel whiffing cst.hp on first hit. The fuck Abel is going to fuck me any more after


Wish I was good/knowledgeable enough to really contribute to this cause. I really hope the better players throw in what they know to this. Yeah I’m talking to you Meteo, Pedo, Joz, Alex, Deuy, Tatsu, and anyone else with some real knowledge of Vega. I’m real curious as to what Perfect Insanity and Thai Vega can contribute as well. Anyway there’s too many good Claws around the forum for this thread to be lacking.

If I have anything of note to contribute I won’t hesitate to do so.


I was thinking that maybe it would be good to get some videos up kind of showing rights and wrongs of match-ups. I have an average vega I’d say, and I know a very good abel player that would be willing to do a 5 match set. On the note pedo was talking about, I agree that we shouldn’t go into other characters until we have Abel finished first. If anyone is down with the idea I’d be more than happy to do that.


Sounds good to me


I’ll do an ft10 with a very good Abel on Monday. I’ll see what I can do with regards to getting it recorded.

And ok pedo, we can do Abel now. I’ll leave you guys to this since I play Boxer in the Abel matchup.


Started this one about two months in my blog but gave up since I know people probably can do it better. But if it’s any help, take whatever you want from it, leave out what you don’t think is needed etc etc.;

for Dudley


Matchup Difficulty:
(Vega) 5/5 (Dudley)

Recommended Ultra:
Splendid Claw


  • Pokes:,,

  • Punishes:

  • Anti-airs/ Air to Airs:
    Jump-Back.MP, st.RH, Air Throw

  • Option Selects:

  • Okizeme/Wakeup games:
    Back-throw to j.MP Safejump works…without the j.MP, you can safejump it just by doing an empty jump. You SHOULD be able to block wakeup uppers (Least from what I tested with my other half) and if they cross-counter, you’re safe.

  • Effective playstyles:
    Poking and Zoning

General Strategy:
The key to the Dudley matchup is using your footsies because, quite frankly, Dudley’s are pretty terrible. You really need to keep him out because he can really hurt you when he gets in with his combos, be it starting from an overhead, a crouching move, Dudley has it all; All of these options mean you must think quickly to stay ahead in this matchup.
Keep him at a distance using your medium kicks (crouching and standing).
Most people will argue that this matchup is in Vega’s favour; however from a damage comparison standpoint and the fact he can really keep you pinned if you end up cornered, can really tilt this into Dudley’s favour.
Play it safe, don’t try and rush in; Dudley has methods of getting you off him, whereas vice versa, you do not. It takes only one mistake before you’re the one cornered and I assure you, you’re going to have a much harder time getting out.
If you find yourself cornered, keep very calm, watch out for tick throws and his overhead; If you end up knocked down, Dudley’s Okizeme game is very powerful and you will take damage very quickly if you’re not prepared.
Dudley can try a myriad of things on your wakeup from his overhead, to throw games to just general blockstrings (Most of them will start from his overhead or kidney blow).


I’m glad you found it useful. Abel’s cl.hp on Vega (and probably on more cast members as well), is actually really weird, and if you know how you can pretty much do whatever you want with it (you can throw him in between, him without letting go of downback or even land your own cl.hp right as he’s doing his). I’ve got loads more on that situation (Abel is probably the one I’ve spent most time in training mode against), if you want I can try to put it together into something informative and post it. It probably wont be of much use in an actual match (unless you’ve got a huge pair of balls and extreme confidence in your ability to read people), but hell, the more you know, right?

I hope you weren’t being ironic, lol.