Labwork: Tests, results, discoveries

gouken

#1

Let’s use this thread to answer our own problems. If something has you frustrated, if you discover something random, if you find something useful, if whatever in training, post it in here. That includes questions on how to use the training room properly (i.e. how do I make the dummy do this so I can test something).

I’ll start…

So recently I’ve been intrigued by all these characters finding unblockables on Yun and Yang and most every character seems to have unblockables.

I want to find ours. I know about the one off of backthrow but there has to be more.

Supposedly if you can find a way to get a character to block an attack both ways you are pretty close to finding an unblockable.

I’ve found one where if you forward throw Yun, then double dash forward and quickly step back and then jump with mk Yun can block both ways. I need to find a way to get that timing consistently if possible and then try it out on the rest of the cast as well to see if it produces an unblockable on anyone.

Secondly, I’m greatly annoyed by Rose and Guy and their backdashes after chip from spiral and shoulder.

In 2012 you should be able to reversal MP palm (super LP palm) a rose backdash. It is obviously not reactable but more of a read. It’s something you have at your disposal should you need a way to make them think twice.

In training, I was able to EX palm into HK tatsu Guy’s backdash off a shoulder, which is interesting because st.HP XX ex palm > HK tatsu doesn’t work on him. Again, this is more of a read tool to punish. Can’t do it on reaction. Just letting you know that he can’t backdash without risk, however little it is. I may have just timed the backdash wrong but please verify.


#2

These unblockables if I remember correctly wont work in training correct?


Gouken AE Match Ups. MASTER Thread
#3

They will, that’s how people discover them. I’m looking for two types of setups mainly, unblockables and attacks where you have to block one way but land they have to immediately block the other way, like the flip kick set up where you come down on the opposite side that they blocked and get free st.hp EX palm.


#4

I will look for some replays where ive used only flip kick ambiguously to see if theres anything in there, while checking inputs as well. I seem to use this way often , if its not unblockable its ambiguous as all damn hell. basically deep frontside while still hitting crossup.


#5

I think this qualifies:
Opponent’s in the corner: Cross over with an early lk, you’ll hit them with it but land back outside of the corner for a combo.
(I don’t think it crosses up though, apologies if this is not what you were looking for.)
[LIST]
[]It has to be early to stay on the outside.
[
]+ You can mix it up with mk to cross them up and stay on the corner side
[*]- However, jumping lk has a short hitstun so be careful.
[/LIST]
I’ve seen a video demonstrating, i’ll find it.

Update : Starts around 4:00
[media=youtube]4AbOgGE_zoo[/media]


#6

From what I know, you can cross up with j.lk, but the timing has to be later than what you posted. The short hitstun on it does make it harder to get a lot out of it but you can still get a st.mp afterwards pretty consistently.


#7

Yeah I knew about that. It also works with mk in the corner as well. Looking towards the future and undiscovered stuff :slight_smile:


#8

I like this thread. I have a new unblockable i’m uploading as we speak. Much more practical than 3 already on my channel.


#9

to find an unblockable you need:

  1. a hard knockdown which leaves the opponent at a consistant distance from you

-cr.hk at point blank range (eg after a crumple)
-forward and back throw
-super and point blank range
-ultra (full animation)

  1. followed by a crossup attack

-j.lk
-jmk
-dive kick

  1. and your crossup attack has to land with your centrepoint (see hitbox videos) exactly on top of the opponents centrepoint precisely during the ONE standing frame of everyones wakeup ( that frame where cammy can hooligan throw you even if you hold down on the stick).

The setup we have off a backthrow is not precise, and backthrow is so slow and hard to land, and when we land it we often have ultra, so we just do that. is your new set up off a bakcthrow?


#10

The single most dopest thing about gouken is his balanced jump arc and timing from jump to land. A well timed ambiguous j.mk from Gouken is perhaps more powerful than so many of the games characters options.

RE unblockables:
it feels sometimes like im damn close, because when i get ahead on someone in the hardknockdown/mindgame department i can attack consistently with gflip to hit on that “center meridian” while still being frontside and i see them pull back , especially vs shotos. h, i will begin to search replays and shit.

I have some setups that lead to j.rh and with the right spacing you land frontside but the attack gets placed behind the opponents body, there is several of these very ambiguous options i just dont know if theyre “unblockable”


#11

[media=youtube]o-Resr1jfpc[/media]

The set up is:

  1. backthrow
  2. Ultra II as soon as humanly possible
  3. Ex demonflip and let the slide come out
  4. hold towards the opponent and j.mk kick to the head

Notes:

  • Works on Rufus, C.Viper and El Fuerte.
  • Should work with other characters with j.lk but I didn’t bother testing since j.lk doesn’t give enough hit stun to lead to anything else
  • EX flame kick will beat the set up
  • I couldn’t block Ultra II from Rufus but I think it was because I didn’t record the dummy to block after the set up
  • El Furete Can get out with armor moves and I didn’t bother recording since I don’t know the character moves much
  • The rest of the cast it will work as an ambigious cross up that will stuff or make 90% of the cast whiff their reversals
  • You can use a regular demon flip but it will not be an unblockable and you can always block as a cross up. Will stuff and make reversals miss also.

Previous unblockables can be found at:




#12

so what im seeing is the fact that j.mk when spaced properly can be unblockable as Im sure many moves can, that is you have spot on precision. I know after all that is just one big setup from a series of chained events, because in the end youre still doing a j.mk. Great find Phunk.


#13

I’ve been trying to mess around with instant air tatsu’s using the Tiger Knee motion. I’m pretty new to it though so I haven’t gotten the execution down pat enough to try in battle. It serves as a unexpected cross up after getting a sweep off.

I have been doing late tatsu’s out of regular jump ins or close neutral jumps, and they have been hitting every time. No one really expects it and if they block the first hit, they attempt to get out, only to get hit by the second spin.


#14

There are two methods, the first is tiger knee, the other is reverse tiger knee. You can’t do it right off the ground so tiger knee motion not auto.

I usually do it as :qcb::u::k: or :qcb::ub::k: for a backwards one.

That being said I played Osiris and he said he does it :u: or :uf: and then :hcb: or :qcb:

Essentially he jumps first since you can’t do it instantly anyway. I tried it this way and neither is very consistent for me. Jumping first will almost always get you an air tatsu but just not at the height you want depending on how fast you are.


#15

I think if you have a setup where you can jump attack and cause a crossup where they block pushing forward but you land in front of them so they are now walking into you, it would be really beneficial for everyone if you post that. Something consistent would be awesome.

I’ve also been meaning to try out setups where j.mk crosses up and instead use hp and see if it keeps us in front, essentially letting us pick which side we want to attack. Haven’t had time though. Will try to get to that tonight.


#16

I’m not sure if this is the thread, but what’s the best solution to stop people from blocking cr. mp and focusing the fireball? A risky palm is the best I can figure out, since if I demon flip they will just cancel the focus attack into dash under.


#17

The solution is for the numbnuts at capcom to give it more blockstun so you can’t focus the fireball at any range.

Other then that you can hope lp palm has enough range in the new version to deal with this or you can bait with cr.mp then EX tatsu when you see him focus and hit him for about 225 damage.


#18

There is a window after u1 that allows yiu to dash forward twice and sets Gouken up for the ambig. with j. mk haven’t done it in a while since i haven’t been using Gouken but its there. Guile hates it.


#19

If they’re going for a focus attack, you can kongo it.

Me though, i usually just cr.mp > hado again. Usually gets them.


#20

I have found that vs gief and i think hakan ive used j.hp on crossup.