Lack of Seimitsu products?


#1

You know it seems pretty odd to me that it is almost unheard of for the mass market arcade sticks to be offered with Seimitsu parts. You would think Hori or MCZ would release modern versions of their arcade sticks with Seimitsu parts. I guess the same could be said for Korean parts such as Fanta/Crown. I know Hori once produced the EX-SE model for the X360 that was full Seimitsu but that is a non-common ground stick based on the older HRAP body. I do hope that a competitor in the market steps up with a fully Seimitsu or fully Fanta/Crown arcade stick. I guess the same can be said for Happ/iL albeit to a lesser extent.

I gave my cousin my old EX-SE a while back and I must say, people really sleep on Seimitsu, they produce very good parts. I was thinking of building a Seimitsu unit with a more mod friendly and modern design, I just find it weird that they are so completely ignored.


#2

Etokki does indeed offer an all Korean option of a dual modded stick with a Myoungshin Fanta and Crown buttons, which is dual modded and can be swapped with Japanese parts to boot. Unfortunately their ability to keep enough of the current revision in stock seems pretty limited, and they have a shocking lack of marketing considering the guy who has basically been unbeatable for the last year in both SF4 and cross tekken is using one.

As for Seimitsu, the American market was just never really exposed to Seimitsu parts aside from OGs who knew them way back when, and the US market seems to be fine with the Sanwas they were handed. Madcatz and now Qanba/Eightarc going with Sanwa was probably one of the big contributors, since they (mostly madcatz) basically brought the Japanese arcade stick to the mainstream American FGC. Even in Japan, the Vewlix cabinets which are all the rage use JLFs. I personally am a huge fan of the LS-32, but having played on/owning a few sets of Seimitsu bottons, they seem to be demonstrably inferior to Sanwa. The LS-32 not being offered in a PCB/harness version for a period of time was probably also a big hindrance.

Luckily we have places like Paradise arcade and focusattack which offer parts from both companies. They’re readily available to those who want them.


#3

The PS-14s and the PS-15s are some of the best buttons. I honestly wish LL didn’t go out of business. Sanwas seem mushy after a while.

Anyways, I wish there was a much broader selection of Seimitsu stateside.


#4

Thank you for your response, I was not aware of the lack of market penetration in regards to Seimitsu. Yeah I was actually considering the korean version of the Omni today but it seems there is a pretty big backorder. I may still buy it and just wait a while for it. I actually used to own the EX-SE that I gave to my cousin some time ago. It was actually my first stick and the one I learned on so I guess the nostalgia has me wanting to build another full Seimitsu stick. I was actually a fan of the buttons as I found the more deliberate (yet also light) feel of the Seimitsu preferable to the more shallow and highly sensitive Sanwas. I love both and have fun on both but I must say I prefer the LS-32-01 to the JLF.

I currently own the Hori SCV NX body style stick and it is a great stick and I guess I could just place a LS-32 in that stick but I was thinking of building a full Seimitsu stick just to have quick access to both major Japanese brands you know. I already own a Happ/iL stick as well so the Korean stick would be the last. I’m sure you are aware of how fun it can be to buy new arcade sticks you don’t even really need, I just want to experience each brand you know. I was looking at the preorders for the Hori VX-SE Kai and the Hori AX S+G but it just seems impractical paying all that extra overhead, especially for the VX-SE as I am not a fan of that body style due to the lack of palm space. I guess Japan gets all of the nice unique versions of their sticks and we always get some generico tacky game plastered version later on (still need to make up my mind so I can replace the stock SCV art on my NX lol).


#5

Seimitsu is not as popular as Sanwa is… That’s all there is to it.

And FYI, Hori DOES offer joysticks that have Seimitsu parts. They’re just not large production runs like the HRAPs with Sanwa parts, and, for the most part, most HRAP SE’s are aimed at the Japanese cult market for 2-D shooters which (surprise, surprise) is the one niche that the XBox 360 dominates! It’s a far smaller niche than fighting games but it’s there… and it’s a genre that the LS-32 excels at although those of us who use Seimitsu joysticks all the time know they’re more versatile (in general) than the Sanwa JLF OR the Korean joysticks (from what I’ve heard).

Qanba also offers joysticks with Seimitsu parts but I really can’t answer if they’re offered for wide market or exclusive to ArcadeShock which is the only place I’ve seen the Qanba SE’s at in the US.

The JLF is good for more modern, slower-paced polygon-based fighters but not so good for older-style hand-drawn, faster-paced sprite-based fighters like the Capcom CPS-2 fighters and SNK’s Neo Geo series. It’s not as quick and as responsive as the LS-32 or LS-40 nor does it executive tap-tap, dash particularly well.

The HRAP’s with Sanwa parts were very popular and set the standard for the rest of the pro-level joystick manufacturers to follow. Unfortunately, they’ve done this to the near-exclusion of the other part manufacturers.

You are not going to see Happ or Korean style-parts in Japanese-based joysticks UNLESS they redesign their parts to fit in Japanese stick bases AND fans support those parts. The sad part is that more fans will NOT support redesigned parts by alternate part manufacturers unless they get released first! The broader part of the market is NOT like modders and they will neither mod their stick bases to fit alternate parts because it’s too much hassle for them to figure out how soldering irons and Dremels work, OR they just don’t want to pay for parts and/or labor to get their sticks modded for Happ and Korean parts.

The physical reality is Happ parts will NOT fit into Japanese stick bases… They’re just too big and bulky. Korean parts can fit but only if the Japanese stick bases are extensively modded. That requires more cutting, filing, and resizing of holes to support smaller 28mm Korean buttons as well as mounting Korean joysticks than it does to modify Tekken 5 joysticks to fit Seimitsu joysticks OR install true 30mm arcade buttons into licensed HRAP bases. I’ve modded three Agetec bases to support Japanese parts but I realize the level of work that I had to do to accomplish that is beyond what most people will commit to… Most of these people will NOT learn to solder NOR take the time to do proper measurements and drill into faceplates to mount alternate joysticks in HRAP’s or Mad Catz TE’s. Certainly soldering is cheaper to learn than buying PCB’s all the time that support non-soldered connections. IF you mod just two joysticks with a decent $40 soldering iron that certainly more than pays for that soldering iron… PCB’s with non-solder connection terminals cost on average at least an additional $20 than PCB’s that require a modicum of soldering.

The bigger part of the tourneys are dominated by sticks with Japanese parts. The larger part of gamers who buy Happ parts are people who are into retro games besides fighting games and those who want to recreate the experience of American arcades. The Happ buyers and enthusiasts are a smaller minority than the crowd that buys Seimitsu parts. There are far more Seimitsu fans than there are Happ and Korean part fans put together – at least in the US market… and probably at least 3-5 times of the people who bother to buy new parts for their joysticks will buy Sanwa over everything else because that’s what’s already in their joysticks and that’s what they’ve been led to believe is the best brand of all. Most of these people will never experiment with any other brand of parts let alone less-expensive clones of Sanwa (or Seimitsu) joysticks that are generally just as good as the branded joysticks!


#6

The SE Fightsticks were the prime opportunity to have a fully populated Seimitsu stick for a decent price. Otherwise, you were almost well to just buy a TE and save yourself the trouble of opening your stick.

The reason I never bought a TE was because I wanted to use Seimitsu parts. So both my Madcatz sticks were SEs populated with LS-32s, and one running clear threaded buttons and another using PS-14-Ps. I really enjoyed both…until I fell in love with Korean parts.

See, my wishlist would consist of seeing Crown really go full-on and make some Korean parts that maintain their build quality and add a little aesthetic niceties to their parts. They started down that road with the CWJ sticks, but you don’t have much in the way of options with Korean buttons. I’d love to see some clear Korean buttons, or even rims that aren’t black, but that’s just me.


#7

Well damn. Thanks for the responses and I agree with all of you. Damn well it seems I’m gonna have to build these myself. Rather unfortunate really, especially in regards to the Korean sticks. I need to buy an Omni before some off the wall shit happens and they are no longer produced.


#8

I think Sanwa is more popular, because the majority think it’s better then seimitsu. In the past I bought a LS-32 and thought it to be the worst stick on the market ever. The pivot jumping shit is really annoying, everyone writes here, that its only come with hard play, or some whole arm motions, but thats not true, I play out of my wrist and not hard at all and it jumps. So I sold the stick some months ago. In the last weeks I wanted to try one again, So I bought a LS-32-02 which fits really nice into my Madcatz SFxTekken arcade pro stick with its S Plate. But I still have to say, the sanwa stick is much nicer for me. I can play with the seimitsu, but the pivot jumps (which is not that much an issue I agree, but it feels annoying and its a princibple for me, not even the cheapest chinese knockout product has that much a design flow, its just so bad, I cant say how bad it is for a company to sell such a product with its obvious flaws). THe second thing is, the sanwa feels SOOOOO Much smoother, especially in qcf or hcf motions etc, its super smooooooth, where as the Seimitsu feels much more rectangular in its motions and it kind of grinds, the motions is not as smooth , its like the surfaces arent that clean (my ls 32 is fine, its new and stock and there is grease in it, its more some kind of gate pivot interaction thing). So all in all, the sanwa is much more elaborated in design, its super smooth feels fantastic, everyone is playing it, especially the pros, its standard you cant go wrogn with it.
THe seimitsu jumps and grinds and whobbles, nobody importand is playing it, the engange range isnit that much smaller, only a milimeter and the tensions isnt that much higher, only a tiny bit, its a copy of the jlf and in my opinion not a good one, there are better chinese ones by far.
So yes, thats why there are no seimitsu parts in the big brands.


#9

Gee,

and yet you failed to note that most people who stick with the LS-32 get over the pivot problem.

I play with them all the time and it almost never happens to me… It’s never been a huge issue, period.

Also, if you hate the LS-32 that much, there are the LS-40, LS-33, LS-55, LS-56, and LS-58.
All excellent joysticks… and unique. They all have their issues like anything designed by the mind of man. Nothing’s ever going to be perfect!

FYI, I don’t see that many LS-32 complaint posts and generally people don’t see the need to mod them much beyond an extra spring if that’s what works for them. It’s a hell of a lot more common to see threads and FAQs for JLF’s because of its unique issues which frankly outnumber the LS-32’s. Why do think there are so many alternate springs, pivot points, etc., etc. for the JLF? Why do you think people “frankenstein” the JLF more than the other brands? Because it’s the perfect joystick?

I don’t where you got half your information but I doubt you’ve played with the LS-32 more than I did with the JLF before I came to my own conclusions about both of them.

And to ManRightChea, the post opener –

It’s not about what everybody else thinks or even uses.
It’s about what’s comfortable to you…

It’s always easier to jump on the bandwagon and follow everyone else but it may not be a good fit for you.

You use the parts you’re comfortable with…


#10

Focus Attack has plans to bring some Seimitsu parts overseas… but those plans are in the waiting list since last year… so our only source for Seimitsus is AkiShop… and that’s so sad…


#11

Paradise Arcade.


#12

PA sells tons of Sei stuff.


#13

@George C

Yeah man I definitely agree, I am not an impressionable person, I’ve always been the type to do what I feel its best for me. As for the LS-32, like I said I first learned stick on full Seimitsu. As far as the pivot jumping thing is concerned, I only noticed that at the very beginning when I used to ride the gate. If your LS is jumping often, it is likely your technique. I have always felt that people see Seimitsu as some inferior brand mainly because of the bandwagoner mentality, and not actual experience with the brand. Seimitsu makes very good arcade parts IMO.


#14

That is certainly true, but I think it’s not the most important thing.
WIth the Full Sanwa stock brand joysticks you can be sure to play with a tournament standard equipment, that means, everyone is playing with it and you dont have a disadvantage, its even ground for everyone!! Same conditions for everyone!! I think that is by far more important. With a sanwa stock stick you can be sure to play with the same stuff as the pros and the next step lies only in you, to get better.


#15

Incorrect Assumption. Seimitu parts are just as much Standard parts as your Sanwa parts, if anything often a full Seimitsu stick calls for a higher price tag. And Yes Sanwa parts do have its flaws too.
You are also ignoring the existence of American style and Korean Style parts, the existence of pad players (including pads meant for other systems), and people who choose non-tradtional interfaces such as a hit box.

Opinion NOT Fact. And Opinions are like Ass Holes, everyone got one and they all Stink.

George got this thing pegged, its about You use the parts you’re comfortable with, not what everyone elses use. Trust me when I say of some thing is different about the winning players controller at Evo this year, then every one would want that stick or part afterwards, and its not like that. The Shoes is not why Michael Jordan was a good basketball better and no JLF makes Daigo Umahara better at Street Fighter.


#16

Here’s why I stick with Sanwa: in the off chance that I need to borrow a stick at a tournament, chances are it’s going to have Sanwa parts. Also, if the tournament happens to take place in an arcade, it’s most likely going to have Sanwa parts as well. Hence I’d rather train with parts I’m bound to encounter/use to up my chances of winning.


#17

IMHO it doesn’t matter what parts you use, just as long as you understand how a joystick; its dynamics, throw, engage, tension, etc, all work. just as long as one knows that the basic mechanics of a joystick, actuator hitting switches (In most cases, but opticals have the same basic principle more or less, actuator, giving way for signals to activate), i think a person can adjust on-the-fly how they perform in any given situation, whether it be sanwa->seimitsu->fanta->happ->euros etc.

we can all have out personal favorites (im a big seimitsu fan myself), or we can choose to follow the ‘tournament standards’, or follow what the champions are using, also granted some joysticks are better than others in some situations, it’s still up to the player like Darksaul said.

I had my best scores in ESPGaluda using Sanwa JLF on a cheapo-EX2. OMG Seimitsu not used in Shmups?! what a crime. but really it all boils down to what i said, i adjusted, because i understand how the lever works and how the game i’m playing works with the joystick, if i readjust my responses accordingly, it didn’t have to matter that much what joystick i used.


#18

I actually hoped that with the advent of the new CWJ stick, that Madcatz might put a TTT2 stick with that pre-installed, especially after MarkMan put Laugh’s unveiling on the Madcatz blog.

But thankfully, these kinds of mods aren’t inherently difficult, and I understand having a lot of varied options sitting around on product shelves isn’t cost-effective. In a perfect world, yes. But that’s not where we live.

@d3v has a point too. I train some with Sanwa now, because the arcade that has AE here uses Sanwa, but I still don’t have, nor really plan to get a Sanwa stick. But I learned the importance of playing on Sanwa at least enough that you can execute when I ran sets with Laugh two years ago at a tournament in Seoul, and he had the only K-stick there at the time (Infiltration hadn’t come to the venue yet), and I choked so hard because I was playing on a TE, and had so many jacked up inputs because I had never really played on a JLF. My Chun looked horrendous, when I had had plenty of practice time in arcades that month, but only on Fantas. The next time we played, it was in an arcade, and it looked better.

But again, in a perfect world, every arcade would have USB->Jamma converters from @undamned standard in their FG cabs.

Even Poongko actually dropped K-sticks for TEs, even taking a break to unlearn playing K-sticks so that he could wreck at Shadowloo Showdown two years ago. I don’t think he’s went to a Korean arcade in a long time, and just stays at ID where he can play on J-sticks.


#19

I wonder if 2 players which one use full seimitsu and the other use full sanwa switch their stick, who would get easier time to adapt or get the upper hand of that situation?


#20

Susan from Paradise Arcade has some PS-14-G buttons on special order for me. Haven’t heard anything from them yet, but if you want them to stock them, the best way is for a lot of people to email them and request those parts. They’re only going to stock what they can sell, so make your vote heard.