Lag blame discussion


#1

(copied and pasted from the 4/4 ranking battle results thread, on the subject of lag as the reason for people’s losses)

"i’ve personally played probably every single player from the west coast, and even spectre, who’s wayyyy up west in BC CA. the worst i’ve got was about 120 ping, which was 4 frames per second. granted, the delay is noticable, it was still definitely playable. obviously i can’t force people to play in 4 frame delay, but i think that it would strengthen people’s game if they actually put effort into adapting. there are SO MANY DIFFERENT aspects of the game, that i KNOW that putting the blame on “lag” isn’t actually the only reason people lose.

yes, i’ll be perfectly blunt. as long as the connection is smooth and not jerky, and you’re complaining about lag, you’re a damned scrub who puts the blame on lag for your losses. we’ve been given such a great opportunity for the 3S community. ONLINE 3S (that was better than xbox live)? that was IMPOSSIBLE 1 year ago. i lose to people online all the time. it’s not because of the lag.

stop being bad sports. fucking suck it up and get better, or don’t play at all. how disrespectful do you think it is to the OTHER player, when they win and you fucking cry about lag? they’re playing in the same conditions/environment as you are. grow the fuck up.

(this wasn’t only directed at you rage, but you bet your ass i’m talking about your post also)"


#2

online is for fun. why so serious?!?


#3

with the LION its war…
everywhere


#4

Be grateful that you have free competition and it will only get better (Kaillera to P2P was a huge improvement).

Not happy with your issues?

Get over it.


#5

people are complaining over losing a game where

  1. the game is free and unlimited play

  2. they get nothing if they win

3)you get to play people across the country with only 4- 6 frame delay(assuming you have cable/DSL) with #1 as a bonus

I don’t get it.


#6

quoted da_rage’s response:

“If you were paying attention in the chat room you’ll notice that I mentioned something about the lagg even when I “won”. If I win or loose thats not what makes me complain about the lag. Its not that you can’t adapt to the lagg. Its why would you want to. Offline the timeing dosent change, its always consistent. Online connections vary from player to player. I played 2 people with the same ping (60+) and 1 connection felt smoother then the other. Then you have lagg spikes to mix it all up. Some people can’t adjust within a best out 3 matches. Why should they have to? Once again relize where talking about 100+. Its not like where talking about 50 ping. As you said there is a 4 frame delay. So if a move gives you 3 frames to confirm that means now you have 1 frame to confirm… Technically yea that can make you better, but who enters a tourney to practise timeing?Timeing that you wouldnt even use offline. Gain experience yes. All of this wouldnt matter if these were casuals,but its a tourney. People can’t help but be competitive.”


#7

I’d say it’s understandable. Nobody likes to lose because the game skipped, and we all know it happens. Sometimes, it happens like 4 times in a row, and it gets annoying, but like people have said, it’s just for fun on here anyway, and it’s better than nothing.


#8

If a game is too laggy for your taste, just tell your opponent in a polite way that its too laggy for you and good game, then find someone else to play. I’ve had plenty of times where the game just started out laggy before we even played and I just told the person it was too laggy for me and nobody has ever been offended. If you see a strange occurrence a few times where it lagged when your opponent was wide open and you could punish them, just tell them the lag is fishy and gg. If you see nothing but lag and your opponent walking away taunting, you play one match and then leave a bad game about it. I’ve never left a bad game that lasted more than 5 matches, most of them only last like one or two.


#9

Yeah, I gotta agree. I can’t go into these ranbats with any ounce of seriousness, thus the SA3 Q being represented. And yeah a lot of my matches were lag filled and it just can’t be helped. Doesn’t really bother me at all. I keep in mind that as much as I’m being hindered by it my opponent is probably going through hell too, unless it’s a Makoto player, who for some unforseen reason swims through the lag like a fish in water.:wasted:


#10

as i’ve said, the WORST i’ve seen is 4 frame delay. in stable conditions, this is as worst as it gets. if people’s connections are in use, they should know about it, and refrain from playing. if people have shitty connections (5+ frames, 150+ ping) to people from the other coast, they should know to completely avoid playing.

my post isn’t in response to the ranking battles, it’s about lag blame in general. there has been a slew of lag blame lately, and i got sick and tired of people clutching onto that as an excuse for losing.

you’re right. people shouldn’t have to adapt to 4 frame delay. i’ve already said that i can’t force anyone to. but i’d like people to be open minded and stick to it; PUT YOUR PRIDE ASIDE (“this would be different if it was offline”). this is from personal experience, as playing on xbox live and generally online has made ME a better player compared to who i was 2 years ago. i’m not preaching because im one of the better players out there. i’m preaching because i stuck through it and became one of the better players out there. xbox live was WAY worse than EC vs WC kaillera. we’re talking about approximations of 7 frames and higher.


#11

If you’re playing someone who’s on equal footing with you or slightly better (or maybe not quite as good), and you yourself are a knowledgeable player, chances are they understand there will be lag influencing outcomes. I understand bringing up the lag issue against someone you play who rubs in your face how they owned you so bad with a character using moves you couldn’t punish due to the connection. Other than that, I’m hard pressed to get uppity about anything lag involved.

Now what I DO get a little frusturated about but remind myself it can’t be helped would be say: I’m using Q and I knock down a Urien who I crowd on his wakeup and I KNOW he’s going to do wakeup jumping headbutt. So I’ve already got my plan worked out of standing mk, dashpunch end with SA1. Well, he does the headbutt like I predicted but when I press the mk button, all I see is me being picked up for that pile driver throw of his.:wasted:

Also despite my attempts and work, there is no such thing as a turtle Q on kaillera. You just can’t sit down somewhere and bait techs not unless you’re pyschic. If you see the first few frames of dash in and mash the throw command, you’re good, you try that when they’re already next to you, you’re eating the floor. It’s the reason a lot of people on here think I play an aggressive Q. No, I WANT to be a turtle but you just can’t be.

Ken’s blocked SA3 is another one, either they mash out a dragon punch after all five kicks from the super are blocked and you eat the dp or they spam the throw command before they even have control of Ken again and you get thrown. Offline it’s a piece of cake to punish but online 90% chance they won’t get punished and instead you eat a fist or some floor.

Surprisingly I haven’t seen a lick of Akuma’s hurricane kick spam or jumping Makoto mk like I use to on the old XBL days. I think it’s the little things overall that add up over a set of matches that get people pulling the lag complaints. It screws with your quick getups, it messes up chains and it messes up juggles. Again, like Ramza, I say take online play with a grain of salt, nobody is winning any money off of online or gaining fame from it, you gotta get out to the comp at majors to make a name for yourself.


#12

it gets better with time. i never miss punish opportunities that are given to me. not the obvious ones. and if i do, i blame myself for not timing it properly. SMOOTH, CONSTANT 4 frame delay? after a while it’s no different than playing offline. JERKY STUTTERY delay? one of your connections are in use. don’t even bother playing if it bugs you. if it’s a tourney, just finish it amicably. win or lose, take it. being bitter only makes you look like a jackass. when my girl’s roommate is home and my game starts to have the occasional stutter or slowdown…i know she’s browsing youtube. i stop playing.

look at nataku and tenren. 4 frames doesn’t do jackshit to their hit confirms. in the occasional but never often chance that it DOES…they’re not complaining about it.


#13

i just wanted to touch on this one. i can’t fathom a situation where someone would lose over one SPECIFIC part where lag kicked in and then the normal flow resumed. if that did happen, then that means the matches were close as crap, and the players are evenly skilled. not only that, but the other player would probably realize that he got lucky in that specific instance. but as far as etiquette is concerned, if the first player cries about that specific part and how the second player was lucky, then he’s a dick anyway. i’m grateful as shit to play people who i go toe to toe with and the match would be based off of 1 or 2 moves.


#14

I don’t agree with this one Khang. With the recent migration to GGPO, the one thing that really stands out to me is when someone jumps in to watch a game while you’re in the middle of a combo or VC and it kills the flow of the combo. Now I’m not saying it’s the same as 3rd Strike, but you can’t rule out the fact that a stuttering game can and does have ill effects and important times.


#15

that’s not a reason why you lose. that’s a reason why you didn’t win.


#16

:rolleyes: Are we really going to make this about semantics? :rolleyes:

If I VC you for 60% life and it’s interrupted by a lag spike was lag the reason I lost or the reason I didn’t win? The combo would have won the match. The lag spike cost me the combo. So what is it?


#17

it’s not a game of semantics. why you lose is different from why you did not win.

you lose because you didn’t have good defense.

you didn’t win because you didn’t have good offense.

if i drop a VC drop mid-way, that only says that my offense was stopped temporarily. why did you end up losing? because you didn’t prevent your life bar from going down to 0. what does that have to do with his life bar? nothing.


#18

Fighting games by nature are a competitive practice. Even if you are playing for fun, your ultimate goal is to win. I think it’s instinct to wanna find a reason for losing instead of admitting that the other person is just plain better than you and outsmarted your ass. It’s so much easier to yell/blame lag/delay. Not only are you trying to convince others you didn’t lose because you made a lot of mistakes outta frustration that you couldn’t take a single match from the opponent, but you also try to convince YOURSELF ( subconciously ). It’s only natural because face it, losing feels like shit. Maybe the only times it doesn’t feel like shit is if teh games are going back and forth with both people winning and losing. Or when you have yourself conditioned to a mentality where you see losing as a learning opportunity.

The later being a lot harder than the first.

I’m pretty sure a lot has to do with age among teh community. Best thing I can offer to this thread are some tips for cooling off after a loss.

1 ) Following a loss, wait for the timer to hit at least 8 prefferably 7 befor you continue or put another credit in. Don’t mash teh fuck outta start. This is a deffenit warning sign your not having fun anymore.

2 ) Credits : Don’t mash teh fuck outta credits either. This one makes me laugh :rofl: Run a streak on someone and watch how many quarters they put into the emu :rofl:

3 ) Refrain from moving the cursor at the speed of muthafuckin light.

If you see any of these and the person losing is really quiet, odds are there might be a bad games post coming. I got a couple more ways to handle loss but I’ll leave it at that since I been writing this post fo about an hour already cause I’m at work :rofl:


#19

The thing is that input delay does not affect all characters equally. This used to be why people wouldn’t touch ST online IIRC - the two dumbest characters in the game (Claw & O.Sagat) are also two of the most lag-friendly characters.

With nFBA, however, I do agree that it’s not nearly as valid an excuse as it used to be. It’s just not completely meaningless, either.

-Josh


#20

As mentioned before I probably am the furthest away as possible (Vancouver). Every person I played in exo’s tourney had 100+ ping with me, yet I still was able to beat most of them. Granted I don’t hit confirm with Oro (well I do, but usually after a 5 hit chicken combo) but lag was never an issue. Furthermore, Nataku was having issues with lag during his match with exo - both EC players. After the tourney I play a couple casuals with Henri LAG FREE. I’d say that the coast issue is not the main reason for lag spikes or delay (so you ECers play me FFS!! I can’t play Tenren forever LOL).