Lamerboi needs help with Abel matchup!

guile

#1

I can’t find any holes in Abel’s game anymore, change of direction is too good now, recovers right away after first hit >< ex wheel kick does massive damage =( breathless 2 makes me sweat when i start playing too aggressive lol. Tips would be appreciated, thanks in advance ! =)


#2

what’s that smell? oh it’s the smell of people who are going to tell you that posting this topic as its own thread was a mistake on your part. just a warning…

but there’s a thread on the 1st page about dealing with abel’s breathless:

http://shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=239417


#3

Same as before, at least for me. Dash and FA are Abel’s worst enemies (done right, but you know that). Can’t zone Abel with booms in the traditional sense so don’t rely on them…or your charge in general. I tend to fight Abel with normals mainly; considering how good Guile’s normals are, they tend to be very reliable.

If you knock him down:
I have a lot of luck with the random nj.(late)fierce on his wake-up as that teaches him not to command grab you on wake-up. Of course, don’t become predictable. His new AA grab has improved quite a bit.
You also want to be in his face but just out of his command grab range as at that range, Abel doesn’t have much. At this range, you can also jump over him in case he throws a random U2.
I also tend not to finish my full BnB’s with him but shorten them if I’m not at max range as he can EX throw you out of c.jab>c.mp link as he wishes but at max range he whiffs, setting him up for some real damage. What I do is poke, nj.something, poke, cross-up, nj, dash>repeat until I see how well this works on a particular Abel player. Rinse and repeat if it does and adjust if it doesn’t.

When he has no meter, rush the living Geesus out of him as that’s the only time you can do it safely.

If he knocks you down:
Save meter for FADC for after he knocks you down, just in case.
If he’s roll+cross-up happy, dash forward…grab happy, dash back.

If he picks his Ultra 1, watch hard for his cross-up j.mk>something>cr.fierce launcher as that seems to work in super better than vanilla (I might be wrong about this but I’ve been caught by it more in SSF4) On U2, spacing is crucial and there are times where you simply can’t do anything but eat it.
You have to make a quick judgement when he fires it up. Can I jump over him? Can I jump away and be just out of the range? Can I FK him RIGHT NOW!? Wrong answer means you eat it or get lucky.

The rest really depends who you are fighting. As far as I’m concerned, new Abel owns Guile, character vs character. You have to find a way to exploit the player as you don’t get a guaranteed anything in this match.
Oh and keep moving. Seems to mess with his spacing as now he has to take a moment to figure out what range of attack he can do.

Hope something here makes at least a bit of sense and helps.

Awesome job vs jwong’s Rufus, BTW. That was one of the most intense Guile matches I’ve seen in quite some time


#4

The major problem is that Abel players will be crossing up Guile with j.MKs once he is knocked down. Hence, Guile loses his d/b charge and has to guess correctly what the Abel player will do next. Needless to say, the risk versus reward ratio is heavily in Abel’s favor because, as far as I know, Guile can do absolutely nothing if cross up j.MK is timed appropriately (i.e., Flash Kick whiffs, both super combo and U1 get blocked, etc.). You may be able to focus and dash to the opposite side, but Abel can probably deal with this gimmick rather easily if the player option-selects CoD. The point is that Abel has an entirely risk-free option in cross up j.MK to set up his offense once Guile is grounded. For example, mix ups may include but are not limited to: c/u j.MK -> TT or c/u j.MK -> cr.LK -> TT or c/u j.MK -> cr.LK x 2 -> TT or simply an empty jump into TT. Yes, I know that most characters give Guile a hard time when he is on the ground, but most characters neither have a command throw nor the mobility of Abel to approach Guile consistently. Also, there is a certain range in which Guile can do nothing but guess when the Abel player will release those buttons after Breathless is initiated.

Aside from the aforementioned bull shit that gives Abel the clear advantage, Guile has the ability to zone him very well. Of course, zoning him is not as easy as zoning Zangief and E.Honda for obvious reasons, but it can be done so effectively if you have the necessary experience. The problem is that once Guile is grounded he is a sitting duck to all kinds of nasty mix ups.

I recall playing HAV’s Abel online not too long ago. I took 70% of his life by zoning him. Then I was grabbed by the U2. That is more than half of Guile’s life + untechable knock down right there. He simply proceeded to destroy me on wake up by constantly crossing me up and tick throwing me with the TT.

That is something Guile players must get used to, though. If a character can somewhat overcome the barrage of Sonic Booms, knock Guile on his ass, and force tough mix ups on him, chances are that Guile is at a disadvantage against that character / in that match up. This scenario pretty much includes all the characters we detest fighting, such as El Fuerte, C.Viper, and Akuma.


#5

Appreciate all your responses guys, I’ll try and keep an eye out for those setups and work my way around it somehow. Definitely a tough matchup all-around.


#6

Geom Modinside posted a video showing that reversal target combo avoids cross ups. I don’t know how viable this is, but it seems good every once in a while. Still, if Abel noticed this and starts doing empty jump EX TT, then you’re screwed.


#7

late auto-correct flash kick works for me sometimes if you hold db the opposite direction of the crossup

also breathless is my least favorite thing about super so far


#8

[media=youtube]khFtyHFKDPo]Short Guile Vs. Abel Tutorial by [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/MoD1ns1d3[/media].

On an unrelated note, I am fairly certain that Guile has absolutely nothing to counter cross ups while he is grounded. I think when a meaty cross up attack, such as Abel’s j.MK, is timed perfectly the Flash Kick gets stuffed or whiffs entirely, cr.MK gets stuffed because it does not have any invincibility frames or tremendous hitbox reduction, etc. If you focus, you are vulnerable to option selects. If you block, you are safe yet a sitting duck to mix ups, especially against characters with command throws. Albeit they can be baited just like anything else, the video above does demonstrate some options against Abel’s cross up and mix up game. It may be best to pick U1 against this character because of its damage. If you guess correctly and reverse whatever he may be throwing at you, you are awarded appropriately to say the least. U2 seems to have very little use aside from comboing into it after the Flash Kick.

I agree with Warahk. This match up is ass for Guile. Your execution, reaction, and knowledge have to be top notch… not to win, but to have any kind of chance to win. Akuma, Abel, C.Viper, and El Fuerte seem to be Guile’s toughest match ups. Rufus is also tough but managable as proven by LAMERBOI’s match against J-Wong’s Rufus. Prominent Guile tournament players may want to contemplate picking Dictator. He is a charge character who does much better than Guile does in these match ups.


#9

i think learning a second character is the best option.

Abels mix up and option selects will always be there, and he will always be the most difficult grappler to zone. You can’t react to abels options after you block a step kick, you have to guess. This match will always be a shitty guessing game grossly in abels favor.

When zoning abel i think the space you want to be in is just outside lk roll range, so you can walk forward and throw all variations of roll on reaction, and so that you’re just out of step kick range. If you’re further than this punishing rolls is just another guess.

Abel is my second most hated character. I think he’s the third best character in super, after rufus and akuma.


#10

useful video by Geom

[media=youtube]khFtyHFKDPo[/media]