Learning characters to improve fundamentals


#1

Hello everyone, this is a topic I’ve been thinking about for a while now.

In my whole time playing these games, I have never learned how to use projectiles, and I’m thinking that may be hurting my overall skills. I started playing ST 2 months ago and exclusively use Boxer, but now I’m wondering if I should go in a different direction.

See, however much I improve against the Super Sundays crowd, the same thing happens when I go to tournaments. I lose to people who don’t really play ST but are more experienced in general than I am and just play solidly with Ryu or Old Sagat. Now, I am wondering if I should learn one of these characters myself to better understand how to fight them and attain this kind of universal skill.

It seems like Ryu and Old Ken would be good for this - would Old Sagat work, or is he too powerful to teach these things? Is this even a good idea?

Many thanks,
Josh.


#2

My opinion is to stick with your main till you know EACH match up in and out. Knowing exactly what to do and not to do against eveybody with the chacter of your choice will benifit you extremely. Learning the exact distance you should try to maintain throughout the round for each charecter is one example.

Another is to learn what normals have the best and worst results vs all the cast.

This of course means you will have to take a lot of losses but it is more of a in the long run type of situation.

YouTube is an awsome place to pick all this up. Practice is the next thing to do. By practice I mean in training mode. Execution is a huge part of improvement. You have to be able to do what you want to do at any givin moment, be it to punish or an evasive manuver special move.

And last but not least is expirience. PLAY PLAY PLAY.

Just my personal thoughts on the subject. Take it or leave it.


#3

… I have to steal a concept here…

I think it was Sirlin who said SF has two main character archetypes: Characters who fireball (RYU, KEN, CHUN, GUILE, SIM, DJ, SAGAT (7)), and characters who get around fireballs (Blanka, Honda, Gief, Hawk, Cammy, Fei, Vega, Rog, Bison). It is like Yin/ yang concept? you know there can be no good without evil? etc etc?.

Honestly, ask yourself this question: How can you really beat a fireball character archetype if you really don’t understand how fireball player archetype has to play to win?

I think your post raises a great point of discussion. For me at least, my three favorite characters are Blanka, O.Honda, and Sim.

Sim, is one of the most technically difficult characters to play well. I am not an Expert player by any means. I am just a guy who loves to play ST. But, I tell you one thing?. I could not play Honda and Blanka as well as I do if I did not spend all the time that I did learning to play Sim.

The one big thing I learned for myself is that the ?Fireball? is an extremely powerful tool, . However its weakness is that the fireball player archetypes heavily really on it to win?. If that makes any sense.

Think about it this way Ryu?s fireballs lasts 42-44 frames. That is nearly 1.5 seconds?.. That is a long time? If you can find a way through, around, over, or under the amount of space the fireball occupies when released you have is 1.5 seconds and ~ 45 frames to do what ever the hell you want to Ryu. A 1.5 second opening can lead to a lot of pain in ST…actually in any competive situation

Don?t get me wrong, I know it is much easier said then done. But, it may give you a perspective when approaching this problem.

If you are just looking to better understand how to beat the typical fireball player archetype: Out of the three characters you stated, I would learn to use O.Ken. He is the easiest and least technically difficult to use. There are not many character nuances to have to learn. He has a great fireball, hits HARD, has an easy cross up, great AA, and his DP is the best in the game. (IMHO)

The whole point of Ken?s game, is to apply the classic Shoto Fireball trap. You don?t have to worry about supers, big multi hit combos, weaker DP?s, and etc? DON?T GET ME WRONG, O.Sagat is all about the Fireball trap too. But, you?ll have to work harder with O.Ken, and I believe that will help you better understand how the fireball player archetype wins in the long run.

Now, if you are looking to win more matches with a fireball player archetype I would use N.Ryu or O.Sagat. But, from your post I am assuming that is not your goal.

I could be wrong, and I am sure some will disagree with me. And some others will make some great points that I missed. But this is my perspective. Good Luck :tup:


#4

Learn O.Ken or O.Sagat.

O.Sagat is a bit like Sent in MVC2, even if you suck with him, he’s still better than no o.sag.

The thing with O.Ken is his DP’s, you can play O.Ken pretty grimy and back-to-basics.


#5

Thanks for the advice, everyone! Was leaning toward Old Ken since I do enjoy him and he’s more of a “pure” shoto than the others, and I’ll probably throw some Sagat in there because, hey, why not?

And fatboy, you got it right - this is not strictly about winning (Boxer will always remain my main character) but about understanding an aspect of these games that always eluded me. I just think that in the long run, you miss out on some things if you pick top-tier in every game.


#6

Yeah, I hear you! Its even simpler than that to me. Simpley put, it a lot like chess, you have to konw how all the pieces move before you even attempt to win. :sweat: But what do I know? I am polish! :clown:


#7

I agree. If you want to get to the highest level you have to know how to play with ALL the characters. Not MASTER all of them, but just learn their basic strategies.


#8

Thats why you always kick my A$$ Mr. Bowl…


#9

Ja pierdole… :amazed:


#10

O. Sagat’s fireball recovery is way better than anything you’ll see in just about every other game. You’ll develop bad habits with him, and you won’t learn as much as you would with Ken or Ryu.

I second O. Ken because his quick DP recovery encourages you to try and look for reversal opportunities.


#11

sigh

I am also a member of that secret society =(


#12

Thats just 100% Wrong. You don’t try to parry in A3 or CC in ST. You say O.Sag will teach him bad habits because his recovery is so fast then say you second O.Ken because he has a quick DP…

uh whut.


#13

If you were going to pick up a new character, I’d say learn N. Ryu. You’ll learn the shoto mindset and pick up another character that’s actually good. Plus if you need, tips on certain match ups, it’ll be easy to just go look something up on YouTube, just look for a Daigo or Shooting D match vs. the character you’re having trouble with.


#14

I just bust our laughing in my office! :rofl: :lol:


#15

Kyokuji’s the last person you should be lecturing about A3

And for the record, more people have unpunishable blocked dps (Shotos, Fei, Cammy in a lot of situations) than those with ridiculous fireball recovery.