Ledge hogging


#1

This should be common knowledge by now, but I still see people trying to ledgehog the same exact way they did in Melee. In Melee if you held the ledge and then rolled back onto the stage the game still registers as you holding the ledge. So this plus the fact that you gained invincibility from the roll makes it a very good edgeguard tool. This does not work in Brawl though because the game doesn’t recognize you holding onto the ledge when you roll, and you get less invincibility frames from the roll. You still gain invincibility when you initially grab onto the ledge though. So I propose that people start ledgehogging right when the opponent is about to recovery so your invincibility frames blow through any of their attacks, and you’re still holding the ledge. I’ve been able to consistently time this even against Marth’s UpB in which I grabbed the ledge a split second before he reached it and his UpB just passes through me. I know most people have probably figured this out by now, but I still see too many players trying to ledgehog the way they did in Melee.


#2

I didn’t play too much Melee so you’re just saying that if you grab the edge you’re invincible, right? Already knew that, Is there a way to gain the invincibility of the edge and then attack or was that something in Melee?


#3

I think a lot of people roll because the timing is stricter, and if you grabbed too early you don’t want to get ledgespiked by someone’s upB after your invincibility wears off.

Ledgehog right before they upB is a good idea, but with the floatiness of the game and auto edge sweet spot mechanics on a lot of upBs, predicting when someone is going to upB can be risky business. Especially so on stages like FD where a simple mistake could lead to losing a stock because of the fucked up angled ledges.

Edgehog just isn’t as good as it used to be, except against/as characters with tether recoveries and easily predicted recoveries.


#4

Not sure, I’ll test it out.

I know it is, I stated that in the first post.

Aggressive edgeguarding is definitely the way to go, but not all characters can do this because of their crappy recoveries. Ledgehogging can still be a good technique if used wisely, that all characters can perform equally well.

Also the game no longer registers as you holding onto the ledge as you roll, thats the whole reason why I proposed this new way to ledge hog.


#5

I didnt play Melee but it seemed natural to roll because you are visually still on the ledge. You just have to time the initial grab, it’s pretty easy against characters with average recovery.


#6

I always forget about this & roll. :rolleyes:
I found that when your opponent has made it to the edge (assuming your near the edge also) you can shield-grab them as they’re about to get up, then throw them in any direction you choose.


#7

So ledge hogging is when you hold on to the edge to gimp your opponents recovery? What’s the quickest way to do this when your at the edge of a stage?


#8

You can run/walk off the stage & quickly turn toward the stage’s edge for an instant edge guard.


#9

Rolling off the ledge is much less effective in Brawl since the game no longer recognizes that you’re on the ledge once you roll of like it did in Melee. Characters can basically grab the ledge the instant you roll.

When you edgeguard you can either charge an attack for an opponent if they’re coming above, or ledge hog them to gimp their recovery, but the best thing to do is jump off and aggressively edge guard them. It’s much more risky and not all characters can do it effectively.

Just hug the ledge. This consists of walking off the ledge then jamming the control stick back. This couldn’t be done in Melee because you couldn’t grab the ledge from your backside. Also note that you’re only invincible when you initially grab the ledge.


#10

You’re right. I wasn’t to sure if all characters can do this, so I tested it out to edit my post, but seems like corrected me. Good stuff C-T.


#11

Brawl is pretty intuitive wrt edgehogging, when your character is visibly holding onto the edge other people can’t grab on to it, when your character is no longer grasping the edge other people can grab on to. Personally I just stand up (hit forward), it adds a few frames while you are getting up and you stay in their face. Also if you are over 100% the standup animation is longer so you edgehog a little longer.

Sort of. When you grab a ledge a few frames (10?) have to pass before you can let go. However, you are still have invincibility and can ledgehop aerials. If you mash away to ledgedrop because you don’t know the timing, you won’t be able to let go until all invincibility is gone.


#12

Tether characters can edgehog much easier, since they get an invincibility when they grab onto the ledge when they tether, and then another when they retract it. So the plan is basically to hang over the edge with your whip/vine/pikmin and then retract it up when they go to do their recovery.

Problem with tether characters is, their recovery is easily gimped by regular edgehogging.


#13

Did you actually read my post Corner-Trap?

Also, to edgehug with some characters you must fastfall before smashing back. Easiest to do with a quarter circle down to back.


#14

After rereading your post I’m not even sure of what I was replying to.


#15

Sometimes I do roll off the edge, and that’s just because getting ledge spiked sucks. But, seriously, I started trying to ledgehog different as soon as I noticed the difference.


#16

Fuck holdin on to the ledge. Grab the ledge, then go after the mother fucker. No need to wait.


#17

Why would you go after him if he has no chance of coming back? You’ll just end up giving them another third jump, thus giving them a fighting chance.


#18

Depends on the character, if he has a shot of coming back, the airguard is an effective means to end that shot. If not, it’s more of a fuck you to the other player.


#19

could’nt have said it better.


#20

You don’t get it: ledge hogging is a tactic used best when grabbing the edge is the characters ONLY shot of making it back, right? In that situation, when it’s clear that a quick well timed edgehog is going to cause a KO, why chase?