Let Balrog Entertain You

balrog

#1

Bare with me on this one - This is a movie related discussion - Been mulling this over in my head for a while.

The thing that inspired me to buy SF4 was, in short, YouTube movies (namely Arcade Infinity Ranbats with great matches and funny commentary alongside Gamechariot) and now that I’ve been playing for a while, my appreciation for movies has gone up a damn lot now that I understand more of the game firsthand.

Thing is, as a Balrog player, I can’t NOT be biased when I say I enjoy watching Balrog movies, such as AI (Keno, Gootecks, Ronstoppable etc) PRBalrog/ScrubBoxer, Maida Tyson, DeeDogg, SeedyR0M (You get the idea) and all the great fights - I started making SF4 movies back when I couldn’t even perform a JabShortHeadbutt and have been doing so ever since, though I find a lot of non-Balrog players complain (especially in movie terms) that all Balrog is, to them, is Jab’2’Combo spam and find him dull to watch so a certain few communities (Not SRK) have seen people give out to me about posting movies in their threads, not because I suck (I do, but thats not the reason) but because they’re just plain sick of Balrog :confused:

So here is the question - We already have a Critique Thread and a General Purpose ‘great’ Movie thread (Needs More Dudley) so this one is going to be squarely aimed at the point of ‘entertainment’ (Not skill)…

Am I right in assuming the large majority of us Balrog players would be automatically drawn to watching movies of solid Rogsters kicking arse? Just what entertains you in an SF4 movie when it comes to the man who wants that fight money so badly? Do you even bother watching casuals / unknown player movies when you have so many other top/known Rogsters on your favourites list, beit their casuals or in their tournies? (EVO etc) or are you the type who follows people religiously on YouTube for those entertaining and/or learning curve regardless of fame?

Just how entertaining is Balrog? I could watch (and play) as him all day and not get in the slightest bit bored, even if I do admit his play is a lot more linear in comparison to other characters in terms of style as well as entertainment… Heck, some people go so far as to say he’s just plain ‘easy to play’ which I find disheartening but I can see the angle they’re coming from, though even I fight against them on the point that Balrog has his own complexities :wasted:

If all else fails, what is the most ‘entertaining’ Balrog movie you have ever seen? I don’t think this thread will get too big a response but I’d be curious to see what people think on the matter.


#2

To me, my favorite Balrog video was when Crackfiend almost OCVd a team with rog in the 5v5 at evo last year. Im not sure if I had ever seen his videos prior to that but when I saw him just railing fools left and right I was actually cheering for him in my computer chair, lol. As far as how entertaining is/can he be, I personally find his loop into OH mind game fun to watch as well dash ultras and all the other flashy stuff that good players use. I mean really, if you think about it entertainment stims from the player not the character. Pretty much every PRbalrog video I watch he does something that gets me hype, at the same time I’ve seen plenty of high level japanese C.Viper that didn’t get me excited at all, and I would assume most would consider Viper far more entertaining to watch than Rog.


#3

Aye, this is pretty much an example I’m looking for and I can’t really be sure if it’s just “I play Balrog, thus I’m biased” problem. I do enjoy watching movies of specific other characters, such as GeoM ModInsides aggressive Guile and Fuson’s Guile from the Arcade Infinity videos but no matter how linear or complex a character is, I just don’t enjoy watching them ‘as much’ as I do a solid, fun Balrog. In the “Needs More Dudley” thread, people pointed out DeeDogg’s Balrog matches vs a certain Bison player and the funny talking + overhead loving Boxer was just amazingly fun to watch, yet you can be sure other people would look at Balrog with as much hate as we do enjoyment, regardless of who they play.

I suppose it’s each to their own, but it kinda depressed me to know that some people out there don’t even watch Balrog movies because, in their mind, they just presume it’s ‘jab spam’ but I’m sure some people like that would tell you that their favourite movie involves lots of projectile spam… And thats not a dig at people who enjoy tactful defensive play movies over rushdown, just a general point.

I really can’t see how Balrog isn’t all that entertaining to watch :confused:


#4

i dunno about you but a LOT of the japanese rogs are so boring to watch. put me to sleep.

western rogs are always entertaining though. someone link the crackfiend vid please?


#5

Hrm when sabin posted his vids against pamyu and pamyu landed j.HK, c.LP, s.HK, c.LK xx ex rush upper, c.LP, overhead, c.LK, headbutt and dizzed him.

i was like o m f g… lol


#6

Isn’t that the thing, though - I’m sure any player who see’s another player perform something nasty would find that very entertaining - One of my current faves involves Maeda Tyson(sp) destroying two Sagats with extreme prejudice in one of their older 3v3 tournaments (had it in my favourites list but I can’t seem to find it at the moment), purely because you really never see things like that happen too often in the way he did it, especially as it had some crispy loops and shinanigans.

I know a hefty portion of the point lies with personal preference but I figure it’s just a bit disheartening that so many people don’t find him entertaining in general. I agree with some of the more held-back Japanese Boxers aren’t entirely entertaining but I can respect the difference in style (doesn’t mean I have to watch it, basically - Much like how YouTube armchair critics love ranting about how a match is automatically ‘boring’ just because one or the other player isn’t always attempting some unviable garbage or always being aggressive) example of that was a recent Akuma vs Zangief match I watched a while back - All the people screaming “OMG FIREBALL SPAM NOOB!” because the Akuma wasn’t trying to be overly aggressive with Zangief, of whom took a round in about 5’ish clean hits >.>


#7

The reason people find it boring is because balrog isn’t a flashy character, in the sense tht his moveset is all punches as opposed to say fireballs, and that his game is almost all footsie, which alot of people don’t really understand well enough to appreciate.

That, and Japanese balrogs (except for a few) don’t use normals. so when someone watches jap balrogs on the pretense that they are better based on nationality, and see nothing but dash punches and dudes fishing for headbutts, it turns a lot of people off from watching/wanting to understand

imo


#8

Actually you won’t get far as a Boxer in Japan if you don’t use normals. The Japanese have long since figured out how to beat dash punches on reaction, so normals are all you’ll have in most cases.


#9

Thats what im saying, the very vast majority play a really really basic balrog with sick execution and weak footsies, which is why its boring


#10

That brings up another question, then… Is your entertainment in Balrog movies from Combos, Execution, Footsies, Style etc? Yes, I know, some people would like it all in one but I’m sure there are specific details to certain Balrog players that make them more entertaining to watch then others. When I first started out I had absolutely no concept or idea of footsies and spacing, so people who noticed that and complimented it would get an eye-boggling from me because I was too busy screaming about the awesome RU Loop or Shinanigans instead (at the time) and wondered why they were more inclined to point out seemingly less ‘interesting’ things.

Now that I actually play the game I can really appreciate it now, but ultimately I guess I go weak at the knees when I see some serious combo/execution going over that of footsies and solid spacing, but thats probably because I have no spacing/footsies, myself :wink:

Does the ‘production’ value of movies also entertain? I see the Japanese have SF4 TV channels with fancy schmansy stuff smattered all over it and, while I think it’s amusing, I don’t think I could stomach that over a raw recording of an actual fight, or an EVO style fight with nametags and commentary.


#11

One of the most entertaining videos I’ve watched was Keno vs Shizza (CH) at The Specialists. Keno put on some serious mindgame shit and it was really entertaining to watch some of his shenanigans.


#12

Do you happen to have a link or know where it can be found? I’ll give YouTube search a spin once I’m free but I’m also hoping to get a few links rolling on what people regard as entertaining, regardless of the source or fame.


#13

Okay, so none of you guys know me, but I first started playing 2D fighting games in like 2001 (when I was ten or eleven) with CvS2. My brother picked up the game, and we both got pretty into it. That phase lasted for like 6 months, then a year or two later, we picked up 3S, and that was the first game I took semi-seriously (I played a lot of characters, but mained Ryu). Since then, I’ve played and loved any and all SF games, with Ryu being my main the whole time.

When SF4 dropped, my brother got really into it and started playing online a whole bunch. He didn’t really enjoy playing against my Ryu because, like, every second or third player you find online plays Ryu. He called me a whore enough that I decided to pick up a secondary - I experimented with a few characters (Cammy, Abel, M. Bison), before finally trying my hand at Balrog - withing my first few days of playing Rog, I experienced a kind of SF-revelation. I had never enjoyed playing the game more, and I had never felt a closer affinity with any character than I did with Rog. I just loved his design, his personality, his playstyle, everything.

Since then, I’ve been maining 'Rog, and I do love watching good Rogs play. Keno, Maeda, and of course PR Rog are my favourites to watch - Keno’s reactions are great, and I really like seeing how frustrating a solid, defensive Rog can be. Maeda’s style is really interesting to me because of his great footsies and spacing game. He seems to dash around a lot more than most other Rogs, and while this seems really unsafe at first, on closer inspection his dashes are all (relatively) safe. Also, although he’s constantly weaving in and out (like a real boxer!), he’s always hovering at just around the perfect range to fuck with all your pokes. Obviously, PR Rog is fun to watch for a combination of the above reasons in combination with his creativity, execution and his ability to overcome fireballs. Love that dude.

All of that being said, I understand why people find Balrog boring - he is, as has been said so many times before, a very linear character. His wakeup options are solid, but unimpressive and not very flashy. His combos, outside of EX Loops, are also extremely vanilla, and he suffers from a lack of any really interesting reset/high-reward mixup setups. Perhaps an argument can be made for his DSB, but I consider that move more of a gimmick than anything else against solid players - it’s not really a true mixup, so much as a tool to use when the opponent is flustered and seems to be incapable of doing anything but holding down-back.

This is the reason I’ve diverged from Balrog a bit, in order to study some different aspects of the game. I started playing Gouken because I loved his design from the beginning of the game, and I feel he has a lot of potential, and landing basic combos for like 55% damage is fun. Chun-Li I started playing (and have been focusing primarily on for the past couple weeks) in an attempt to solidify my Balrog game, actually. Playing Chun is forcing me to understand the zoning and footsies game on a much higher level, and this is knowledge that can be applied directly to Balrog. In playing these other characters, however, I’ve started to realize how… limited Balrog can feel at times.

I don’t mean limited in the sense that his potential is limitied - of course, he’s one of the better characters in the game. I just mean that his offensive (and even defensive) options lack the versatility and flavour of some of the other cast members.


#14

Nice thread Rope, i for one can’t stand watching people play Balrog.

Why it’s simple i feel like if i watch people play Balrog it hinders my own game, i like to experiment find my own style what works what doesn’t and i’ll try those and incorporate them into my game. Watching a video for a character that you main changes the way you approach him there’s less trial and error and you go for what you’ve seen works and doesn’t. So we end up with Balrog clones and ultimately a Balrog flowchart.

But then again people will say Balrog is Balrog he’s not deep enough for people to play differently he’s a pretty one sided character with clear cut combos i for one don’t believe that, Balrog can be played in so many different ways it’s ridiculous, you have the balls to the wall rush down Balrog, a more turtle type of Balrog, a Balrog heavy combo based lots of ex loops, some will go for mix ups and stuff, others will do your head in with footsies. It’s all out there.

I have to admit Balrog is extremely fun to play as, but i just hate watching other Balrog’s play.


#15

or you can just combine them all, as theres not different “styles” of boxer, but rather facets of his game that people choose to use in a match

saying you dont watch other balrogs play because it will affect how you play is kind of a ridiculous statement, you arent supposed to carbon copy what you see, but add what you see to your arsenal depending on what kind of situation you are in


#16

Not a ridiculous statement, it’s my personal opinion i’ve watched vids of Balrog players in the past and i found myself trying to play in ways that didn’t suit me so i just stopped and went with what i know and what feels right.


#17

Thats a large reason as to why I made this thread - I can understand why people do/don’t like watching them and appreciate everyones varied reasons but, for me at least, movies have been the only thing I can really go on due to limited experience and lack of ability to play offline.

I’ve never played an offline game in my life and it’s likely I never will due to being in Ireland on GFWL and sod all people I know play the game let alone want to bring a controller over and give it a try. Movies have been a MASSIVE inspiration to me as both a movie maker as well as an SF4 player (if you can call me that) but I respect both above views regarding watching them.

I’ve taken a lot of tips and ideas from other far better Balrog players and tried to incorporate similar/same things as a method of learning, considering I’ve little experience thus I often jump around like an arse not really knowing ‘in depth’ as to what I should be doing otherwise - On the flip side, I’ve often watched very very inspirational movies and then opted to hit matches and notice myself trying to be fancy and overstep my capabilities or try unviable stuff for the sake of saying “Hey, let’s give it a try! It worked in the movie, why not for me!?”

Balrog movies are extremely entertaining for me for learning reasons as well as general SF4 viewing reasons and I just knew everyone has a very varied preference when it comes to how they are entertained, hence I thought I’d throw something out there to chew on.

I think we can all agree we’ve a similar list of popular watchable players for one, though it’s not all limited to Balrog - I remember having a stint of following Smallfry and his YouTube channel of Dhalsim matches online with his own commentary and found them quite interesting despite not having a foggy notion of Dhalsim at all, for example, and if I can enjoy movies of a character/game I don’t know everything about, I’ll damn sure enjoy watching a great player kicking arse with my favourite/current character choice.

I’m not suprised to see someone who doesn’t enjoy watching Balrog movies, however, I was actually hoping that people would step forward and take part in this thread :china:


#18

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4182342 43 minutes

keno vs crackfiend

go


#19

crackfiend… kinda sucks


#20

crackfiend is bad because he built the foundation of his game on gimmicks and scrub habits, lacks footsies or any type of mindgames and is lucky that he can mash cr. lp to win matches

<3 u crack