Lets talk about basic snap action switches, and mods!


#1

Herro everyone! This is mostly going to be a technical breakdown of various basic snap action switches I have my hands on. If, or more likely, when I get more, I will update this either with a new post or editing this initial one. Or even both!

Cherry style switches

Lets start off with Cherry D44x switches. These are typically iL buttons and old school HAPP buttons. This is what one looks like:

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/cherry1.JPG

Quick @specs‌ : <— lol, maybe he’ll get the joke?
75 gf
pin plunger
spring tension assembly

Uses: Good for buttons. Would not recommend for levers because of the lower force, unless you want to compensate with a higher tension spring.

Lets see what it looks like with the case taken off!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/cherry2.JPG

Now lets take a closer look. You can clearly see the tiny spring assembly it uses for tension.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/cherry3.JPG

Modding the D44x
This is not a fun switch to mod, because if you lose that spring and you have carpet in the room, good luck finding it. It’s small and gets lost easily. You also can’t easily do a drop in lever mod, because of this reason.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/cherry4.JPG

See those tiny holes on top? That’s the switch stock from the factory. They’re far too small for lever usage. See the larger holes on the bottom? That’s modified to allow levers. Easiest way to do this is with a #0 phillips head screwdriver found in those little electronics screwdriver kits.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/cherry5.JPG

It barely fits above the hole. Put the tip in, and twist until you widen it a bit. Oh god. If you haven’t been laid in a while don’t take that the wrong way ok? Anyway, once the hole is wider you can finally put your lever in. Hahaha, nevermind there is no way around it, it’s dirty talk lol.

Here is an image of a lever installed.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/cherry6.JPG

That about does it for my messing with Cherry D44x. It’s something I won’t be doing again because of how fragile they are. I wasted 3 switches simply from losing the springs once they pop out. It’s easy to have that happen when you’re trying to separate the two halves of the case, because out of all the switches here Cherry D44x is the most difficult to get apart.


Zippy style switches

Lets start off with Zippy VM-5 switches. These aren’t found in typical arcade parts, but some vendors offer an option for Zippy, Cherry, or E-Switch if you buy HAPP, iL, Yenox (lollers!!!) or various knock off buttons.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/zippy1.JPG

Quick specs‌:
20 gf
lever, pin plunger
spring tension assembly

Uses: This is a mod Paradise Arcade came up with to get silent switches without having to use reed switches. If you go this route, you will have to find a way to increase tension on your stick because you will lose a good bit of the snappiness from stock, which means slower return to neutral.

Lets see what it looks like with the case taken off!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/zippy2.JPG

Now lets take a closer look. You can clearly see the tiny spring assembly it uses for tension.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/zippy3.JPG

Modding the VM-5
Not such a bad switch to mod. I’m actually fairly impressed and prefer these over Cherry because if you happen to pop the spring out by accident it’s easier to put back together in comparison to Cherry switches. They’re also lever friendly, so I can fully recommend tinkering with levers. Plus, they’re cheap, and you can buy them just for the levers and have some spare switches on back up. If vendors carried 200 gf (1.96N) versions of these I’d easily recommend putting them into sticks for stick mods.

I don’t use these because of the low force but it was nice to get some hands on with them. I think the quality is good on these and there is no reason they should be considered shit tier switches just because people like to switch ride the Cherry brand. Plus, they’re way more mod friendly, easier to access the internals, and it’s a lot easier to get your hands on levered or pin plunger style versions.


Omron style switches

Hey, guess what I just got in the mail today? Omron V-16 switches!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv161.JPG

Quick specs:
200 gf
pin plunger
copper plate tension assembly

Uses: Great for levers. Would not recommend for buttons because of the much higher force, unless you want to break your fingers while you try to Hundred Hand Slap in ST.

Lets see what it looks like with the case taken off!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv162.JPG

Now lets take a closer look. You can clearly see the difference in the copper plate assembly it uses for tension vs the spring assembly style seen in Cherry and Zippy.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv163.JPG

Gah, my eyes, they burn! What brightness! Sorry yo, had the exposure freaking out on me for that one.

Modding the V-16
Haha, I haven’t even had these for 2 minutes and guess what I’m doing? Yeah, I’m fucking modding them!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv164.JPG

These are super easy switches to mod. If you want to tweak switches to your heart’s content and you have a bunch of different Asian branded switches, it’s easy! These accept Zippy levers, Omron levers, and Gersung levers. As you can see in the above image, I’ve placed Zippy levers into the switch for use on my LS-40.

That about does it for my messing with a V-16. I haven’t done any other mods because I frankly like the 200 gf tension and can’t wait to try these out in the LS-40. I have a stock set (bought 8) for messing around with later. Hayabusa mod possibly coming up, I’m still thinking this one over on how to proceed.


I’ve had some Omron V-10 switches for quite a while. These are a bit different from the V-16 switch because the case is higher spec plastic and is riveted together. Cosmetically these are a bit more pleasant and far less rough around the edges compared to V-16. Anyway, lets see what it looks like!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv101.JPG

Quick specs:
100 gf
pin plunger
copper plate tension assembly

Uses: I’m not really sure. This particular set came from a Sanwa OBSM assembly. 100 gf is too high for buttons and aren’t really quite comfortable to play on. At least stock Sanwa and Seimitsu buttons. The plastic simply isn’t heavy enough to make pushing these down pleasant. On the other hand, clear plunger Seimitsu buttons can have a nickel (5 grams) placed between the two pieces of plunger for an extra 5 grams of weight. If you can get weighted balls from a fishing store you may be able to make the plunger heavy enough to make pressing down the button a bit easier, if you can get another 20 grams of weight it would offset the extra 25 gf from Cherry buttons and make these feel more comfortable. The possible benefit of this over Cherry could be a faster snap back to neutral because of the extra tension when fully actuated.

Oh, while I was writing further down below I thought of this. If you want a stick with somewhat quieter switches but still want to hear a click you can use these. They’re half the tension as stock switches on a JLF and you can get a spring that is 2x as tense as stock to offset the change in tension. It might not be a bad mod if that’s what you’d be looking for, and it’s still cheaper than D2RV switches.

Lets see what it looks like with the case taken off!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv10l2.JPG

The above image is actually from a different switch. The switch was levered otherwise it’s 100% identical.

Now lets take a closer look. You can clearly see the difference in the copper plate assembly it uses for tension vs the spring assembly style seen in Cherry and Zippy. Of course, in comparison to the V-16 there is no difference.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv103.JPG

Expoosuurreeeee!

Modding the V-10
This switch? Fuck modding this switch. The damn rivet means you need to drill that shit out, which is not fun. The mounting holes are also smaller than the V-16, Cherry, and Zippy which means you also need to drill those wider so it can fit on stick base plate position nubs like on the LS-40. Anyway, you can easily add levers if you want since the case is exactly the same as other models that do have levers. You can throw in Gersung and Zippy levers if you don’t have Omron ones on hand.

My opinion is the work required to mod these is not worth it since you can get V-16’s.


I also have some levered V-10G2’s as well. Identical in every way except the lever, but hey here is a picture anyway.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv10l1.JPG

Quick specs:
100 gf
lever
copper plate tension assembly

Uses: If you want a Seimitsu LS-32 or LS-40 with half the tension you can use these if you want. Just be sure to get a spring that is 1.5 to 2x more tense than stock.

Lets see what it looks like with the case taken off!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv10l2.JPG

Same image you saw from the V-10, because it’s identical.

You can clearly see the difference in the copper plate assembly it uses. Same as V-10 pin plunger.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv103.JPG

Expoosuurreeeee! Haha you get sick of reading that a second time yes?

Modding the V-10G2

Don’t bother.


I also have some levered V-10G1’s as well. Identical in every way except the lever, but hey here is a picture anyway.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omronv10sl1.JPG

Quick specs:
100 gf
short lever
copper plate tension assembly

Uses: If you want a Seimitsu LS-33, LS-55, or LS-56 with half the tension you can use these if you want. Just be sure to get a spring that is 1.5 to 2x more tense than stock.

Same identical stuff as V-10G2 and V-10

Modding the V-10G1

Don’t bother.


Gersung style switches

Finally get to move on from the V-10x! Gersung switches are generally found in Korean sticks. Well, lets see what one looks like! In particular, the GSM-V0323A3, but other than terminal type, lever, and tension, these should all be identical.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/gersung1.JPG

Quick specs‌:
200+ gf
lever
copper plate tension assembly

Uses: You can use this switch as a drop in replacement for the LS-32 or LS-40. The tension is greater than stock Seimitsu switches so this would be a pretty good switch mod if you’re looking for a bit more snap to your stick.

Lets see what it looks like with the case taken off!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/gersung2.JPG

Oh gosh, it’s identical to Omron :frowning:

Now lets take a closer look. You can clearly see the copper plate assembly it uses, just like Omron. This assembly is brass or brass plated though.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/gersung3.JPG

Modding the GSM Gersung switches

Well, you can remove the levers and plop them in a JLF or Hayabusa. You can put Zippy or Omron levers in them if you want. You can yank the assembly from them and put the assembly in Omron or Matsushita switches. There are quite a few things you can do, and getting the switches internals out is easy to do. Hell, you can even buy a set of these and cannibalize the internals and swap them into Omron cases that have been soldered on to a PCB assembly like the JLF’s.

Other than that, there are a few other tweaks you could do but I have yet to do them myself and can’t really document them. It’s a destructive process though, so unless you have spares I wouldn’t mess around with them just yet, but I will later detail what you can do to tweak a few aspects of the switch.


Matsushita style switches

Ok, so Matsushita switches are basically the same when it comes to the ones we want to use for parts. Like Gersung, you’ll find them mostly identical to other models aside from levers, terminals, and tension.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/matsu1.JPG

Quick specs‌:
200 gf
lever
copper plate tension assembly

Uses: Well, since I’ve never found exact replacements or even similar replacements from vendors in the USA I would say we have little use of these. However, if you have spare Seimitsu parts lying around then you can use these for mod purposes. Otherwise, their uses are stock parts on Seimitsu levers. I wouldn’t recommend them for buttons unless you could find low force ones.

Lets see what it looks like with the case taken off!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/matsu2.JPG

Oh gosh, it’s identical to Omron and Gersung :frowning:

Now lets take a closer look. You can clearly see the copper plate assembly it uses, just like Omron. I mean, at this point, did you expect anything other than clone parts?

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/matsu3.JPG

Modding Matsushita switches

Hey, just like Gersung, you can remove the levers and plop them in a JLF or Hayabusa. Unfortunately you can’t put Zippy or Omron levers in them if you wanted :frowning: Like Gersung, you can yank the assembly from them and put the assembly in Omron or Gersung switches. There are quite a few things you can do, and getting the switches internals out is easy to do. Hell, you can even buy a set of these and cannibalize the internals and swap them into Omron cases that have been soldered on to a PCB assembly like the JLF’s. Or you can cannibalize your Omron tension assemblies and put them in your Matsushita’s. Or you can put them in your Gersung’s. I mean, you can tweak and tinker to your liking if you have all 3 in various tensions.

Other than that, there are a few other tweaks you could do but I have yet to do them myself and can’t really document them. It’s a destructive process though, so unless you have spares I wouldn’t mess around with them just yet, but I will later detail what you can do to tweak a few aspects of the switch.

That about wraps up the models of basic snap action switches I have on hand.


Opening microswitches
Hori Hayabusa Switches?
#2

That’s that shit I like! Ha


#3

Levers:

Ok, so most levers are pretty standard. The only ones that really stand out are Mastushita levers, they’re thicker and longer. Oh come on, jeez guys… Anyway, lets see what the levers look like! Do you enjoy my hardware pornography?

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/lever1.JPG

From left to right: Omron short lever, Zippy normal lever, Gersung normal lever, and Matsushita normal lever

There isn’t much difference between Zippy and Gersung levers. Shape is pretty much identical, same thickness, and nearly identical length. The same goes for Omron which I could not picture because I am not going to bother removing the rivets from the switches I have that has them.

However, an easy way to tell Zippy from Gersung/Omron

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/lever2.JPG

You can see the Zippy levers have an indentation at the base. Easiest way to tell them apart if you accidentally mix up your stock of levers.

Gersung, Zippy, and Omron levers are all interchangeable. Unfortunately, Matsushita are not, you can plainly see why. The thickness makes it impossible to fit in the cases for the other brands because of the smaller slots on the tops of the switches.

Levers are useful for making diagonals easier to hit, shorten engage by .5 mm, or do wacky switch layouts like the offset style used in Korean sticks like the Crown 303fk, or sticks like the Seimitsu LS-32 and LS-40. Here is a Crown 303fk next to a very recently Omron modded LS-40.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/layoutlevers.JPG

As you can see, they’re almost identical, with the exception of the Crown’s switches being a bit closer together. This is what levers help do.

But, if you ever needed to mod an aspect of the Matsushita switches like say, tension…


#4

Comparison of Asian basic snap action switches:

I’ve noticed a trend across the various brands. Omron, Matsushita, and Gersung, all use interchangeable and nearly identical internals.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/internals1.JPG

From left to right: Omron V-16, Omron V-10, Matsushita, and Gersung. As you can see, they all use parts that can be swapped between each other. In fact, one of the Matsushita images in the first post had Omron internal parts in it… I just didn’t tell you guys. Sneaky right?

Want a close up?

Omron V-16 and V-10 are identical

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/internals2.JPG

Hey, Matushita!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/internals3.JPG

That nice looking lady over there Gersung to me a lullaby!

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/internals4.JPG

And for reference on how different Cherry switches are, here is the internal assembly for the D44x.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/internals5.JPG

Functionally, Omron, Matushita, and Gersung are identical. There are minor cosmetic differences between them that do not affect their function. Anyone who says Omron is THAT much better is a bunch of switch riders and only care about the name. Looking at the internals Omron isn’t even cosmetically prettier than Matsushita so there is no reason anyone should really give a fuck. Gersung on the other hand has a more polished brass assembly but other than some shine, it’s the same, too.

There are ways to tweak these and I’ll have to go over that later, but like I mentioned in the first post, tweaking aspects other than tension is destructive.

Probably the most useful and easiest tweak you can do if you have a handful of these switches at different tensions is to swap the copper plates between the switches. For example, if you feel like your Matsushita switches aren’t tense enough and they’re soldered to a PCB assembly, then open the case, pull out the assembly, switch copper plates, and put the assembly back in. Bam, you now have “Gersung” switches in your Matsushita PCB assembly.


#5

Some switches have different types of plastic. Example, Omron V-10 series vs Omron V-16 series:

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omroncomp2.JPG

On the left is a higher quality case, on the right, a lower quality one. Left is riveted together, right isn’t. This makes modding V-10 series and similar much more difficult. The difference between the plastics is that the one of the left is a thermosetting case and the one of the right is a thermoplastic case. Other than that, they’re identical functionally and the parts are easily swapped between them if you want to remove the rivet. Just beware, once the rivet is removed, the case will not stay together anymore unless mounted between two pieces screwed together, like a stick body and gate.

Spoiler

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34563876/Images/switches/omroncomp4.JPG

All 4 types of Omron switches I have. All the ones that are V-10xx are identical minus the type of lever. Can you tell which are manufactured in Indonesia and which are Japanese? The V-16 is Indonesian, the V-10 is Japanese, the V-10G1 is Japanese, and the V-10G2 is Indonesian. Yeah, so much for Omron being superior because it’s Japanese made these days, and guess what? They all look the fucking same inside. No switch is better looking than the other or any more higher or lower quality based on where they’re made. So much for that.

Well, that about wraps it up for tonight.


#6

I’m a bit confused about Cherry D44x. There are 8 switches that I am aware of that have the D44x case markings and they all have different gf to activate. Am I missing something or is this switch that you covered generally the only one commonly used? I think Bryan is using a different D44x than the one just covered (One with higher activation force) for the low-pro PAS stick.


#7

you should dedicate a section towards getting the perfect balance of Joystick Spring tension and Microswitch actuation force in accordance to the overall feel one would want to achieve.

i.e. why one should use softer micros for higher tension springs (Happ sticks)… and vice versa (Sanwa).

I think this is important.

damn you took that to heart.


#8

Great work there Moonchilde


#9

The V-10-1A4 is* stock in a beatmania IIDX Sanwa button. It used to be the stock switch in a beatmania IIDX machine, then (from what I understand) as of a while ago (IIDX 12th IIRC) fresh beatmania IIDX machines straight from Konami have 50G switches installed, which I guess Konami does themselves or special-order the buttons that way from Sanwa.

It’s also the stock switch in a beatmania IIDX Arcade Style Controller home controller made by Konami, it doesn’t use Sanwa buttons but an entirely unique assembly.

And it’s the stock switch in beatmania (5key) machines, and probably also beatmania III (also 5key) machines.

*I don’t think the buttons themselves started coming with the 50G switch but I’m not 100% sure. Looks like they still have V-10-1A4 http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/sanwadenshi/item/ilumb_098/


#10

interesting thread! makes me want to open all these random switches I got to see what they look like inside. got some Baolian, Toneluck, and Lema Electrics switches just laying around.


#11

The D44x is just the base model. It’s going to be the same design over all just various tensions. There are levered models which I’m not sure if they’re the same case or not, Cherry also offers snap on levers so they may come with that. The ones Paradise Arcade sells are the 75 gram variety, a bit more common for our community since they’re mostly used in buttons and easier to get a hold of because PA sells them.

Anyway the point of the Cherry wasn’t so much the tension but the over all design. It’s to show how alien they are compared to what we see every day in MadCatz and Hori products, which are the copper plate assembly variety.

Saia-Burgess was also used at one point I think in iL sticks. Someone correct me if I’m wrong on that.

Yeah, it’s pretty important but the perfect balance will be different for everyone and for different mods. For example, plastic ball tops have less weight so if you use less tense switches, say the V-10 base model at 100 grams, then you’ll want a spring that is 2 or 2.5 lbs. You will basically want to double the spring tension if you want stock tension. Then you have to factor in the weight of aluminum tops (which are much heavier) and how to balance the load then.

On the other hand, sometimes adding extra spring tension puts a lot of stress on the parts and you can feel how it affects the joystick movement, I had this problem with 3 lbs on the LS-56 when stressing the max range for diagonals.

A write up would be good but I think it deserves its own topic, since you start getting into spring modding at that point.

Indeed. I see people cry foul about a bunch of stuff they don’t really know about. Brand loyalty and blindness then spreading that ignorance because you’re dick riding a name. It makes no sense. I wanted to clear up some of that misinformation here and show people that the parts are pretty much identical, it boils down to how much you want to spend and availability really.

Unless you’re looking into something like Cherry, where the design is completely different, then you may have a reason. But honestly, as nice as Cherry are, I don’t think they’re any more special and when it comes down to it, they’re simply a greater pain in the ass to maintain and put together.

Edit: Oh, thinking on this, did you mean taking it to heart when you mentioned Hayabusa having Matsushita instead of Omron and being disappointed? LOL, I didn’t mean this pointed at you, I am merely talking about some people claiming JLF is far superior to say, the TvC JLF clone, which uses the same switches I just picked up today. That was one of their reasons for claiming why the JLF is superior, which, when you look at the finer details, doesn’t make much sense. Same reason people try to say certain Korean sticks are worse than others because one uses Matsushita and one uses Gersung. They’re internals are interchangeable, I mean, what can you say about that? On top of that, you can’t even judge a switch by its cover, because even if it’s a tad more polished and prettier, the insides are just as dirty as the slightly less prettier ones. I mean, ok, that can be taken the wrong way, too. Why is it that one of our favorite hobbies is so easy to mistakenly word play pornographic phrases? Or is this just me? My mind must always be in the gutter.

@DanAdamKOF‌

Well, 100 gf isn’t exactly horrible feeling on buttons, but once you try 75 gf you kind of don’t want to use 100 gf. 50 gf is probably too little though, about 70 to 75 feels just right. Of course, everyone has their own opinion and 100 grams might feel fine to some people, and again, it’s not THAT bad, it’s just that IMO, 75 gf feels better.

It makes sense that they’re in Konami cabs, those kinds of buttons are made by Sanwa and as you can see, that’s the switch Sanwa supplies for them. You can find them in several of their buttons like the OBS-xxA. I pulled mine from the OBS-M1 assembly that the OBS-xxA came with. Sanwa seems to only offer 1 type of basic snap action switch with their buttons and it’s always the V-10-1A4.


#12

@Moonchilde‌ I don’t mean any disrespect but a IIDX button is entirely different from a usual arcade button, until you reach a high level in the game it’s hard to have an informed opinion of 100G vs 50G in IIDX.


#13

The IIDX button looks a bit bigger so it most likely has a good bit more weight to it, so in that case 100 gf might not be so bad. But in a normal arcade button, 100 gf feels fairly stiff.


#14

Thanks for clearing that up, moon. On over tensioning a joystick; I feel like if the spring is too tense it’s like you’re squeezing the pivot bearing into its housing so tightly that the lube gets pressed out after the stick moves. They tend to become “grindy”. The Hayabusa’s pivot is the only one that I’ve seen with channels to hold lube. This should make them perform better under higher tension in theory.


#15

Good stuff Moon. +1 IMO


#16

I fully agree with this and I feel this was partly the reason why the LS-56 didn’t feel good with higher tension springs :frowning: The plastic spring hat was rubbing against the plastic body and the pivot would jump more even with all the parts lubed.


#17

is it possible to buy the levers seperate, without the switvh?


#18

Nope, and we’ve been looking.


#19

Hey, little update. I’m 99.99999999999999% sure Sanwa JLW sources the Sanwa branded switches on it from Zippy. The case, the internals, and the levers are identical. Some minor material deviation and different level of polish from the Sanwa labled one, but otherwise, they are identical. Odd, considering their usual is a plate based tension solution compared to spring ones. I have a day off coming up and I will take pics and update.


#20

speaking of.

get your hands on yamatake’s. (older JLF-TM used it)