oni, you mean
I was experimenting a bit, and I couldn’t link st.mp after FADC lp spark or after FADC mp spark. It could just be my bad execution, but if that’s impossible then mp/lp spark FADC cr.hp is a 1 frame link (because st.mp starts up in 6 frames and cr.hp starts in 5). So that would mean that both are equally as hard as it gets, and plinking is the way to go.
Everyone probably already knows this, but the FADC combos can be made easier with input leniency. I just switched from the obvious way and it got much easier because no time is ever wasted focusing and you can enter the dash much slower.
Obvious way: hcf+p, mp+mk (hold), f, f
Easier way: hcf+p, f, f+mp+mk (tap)
cr.hp/cr.mp xx ex.spark xx fadc U2 slide cr.hp xx spiral
For me its easier if I triple plink:
cr.HP xx lp spark xx FADC, cr.HP~(cr.MP+cr.LP) xx Spiral
It does not matter wether you use LP, MP or HP spark in FADC combos, as long as you can get them to hit first. Afterwards the FADC cancels the remaining recovery (30 frames to be exact) and all versions cause the same stun so you have equal frames to do combos after the dash, which btw is 5.
After FADC your best normals are:
c.hp: 1-frame link
c.mp: 2-fame link
c.lp: 3-frame link
I’m comfortable with the c.mp after FADC, but when I want guaranteed damage in a nailbiter I go for c.lp, cause that you can not miss.
The EX spark gives you a lot more frames, you can cancel 38 (+8 more than a normal spark because EX causes longer hitstun due to double-hitting) frames after it by FADC which gives you probably +13 (+5 and then +8) frames after FADC. That would make the link to U1 a 2-framer. But beware I’m doing this without calculator
I’m going to put all the combos and videos posted at the top post then later i’ll go through it and put it in order. Keep it going everyone.
I either go for jab or cr. fierce after the spark; I don’t see the point of cr. strong if I can just hit confirm all the way lol
Could you give me the exact math for this? I’ve been having trouble doing the cr. HP xx Spiral consistently after the FADC but was wondering if I just had poor execution. The fact that it’s a 1f link explains a lot.
Yeah, I also don’t get how this works. From the frame data, it seems that lp spark is -8 on hit, but mp spark is 0 on hit. Both have 52 frames of recovery (!). Doesn’t that imply that mp spark has 8 more frames of hitstun?
Suppose both end up at +5 advantage after the FADC, Rose’s forward dash is 21 frames, and focusing takes 1 frame before the dash cancel. Then doesn’t that mean that the FA cancels (5 - (-8) + 1 + 21) = 35 frames from the lp spark’s recovery but only (5 - 0 + 1 + 21) = 27 frames from the mp spark’s?
Don’t forget though that MP Spark starts up 8 frames more slowly.
you did a mistake in my name
other than that thx
All fixed up.
Ok I think I get it. The “52” in the frame data is actually the total number of frames, not the recovery frames. That means that the lp spark has 52 - 14 = 38 frames of actual recovery, and the mp spark has 52 - 22 = 30 frames of actual recovery. Both do 30 frames of hitstun, which is probably that “30” number that Acku mentioned.
So the reason that FADCing a lp spark cancels 8 more frames than FADCing a mp spark cancels is just because the lp spark has 8 more frames of actual recovery.
correct. To calculate framedata from FADC you usually have to calculate the frames a dash takes, and how fast you can cancel a focus, and then some magic frames for that specific case. It’s on the wiki somewhere. Thats how I found out that FADC after spark gives you 5-frames.
But a more pragmatic way is just doing it and seeing what normals you can get to link, then deduct what works and doesnt from the simple framedata. But thats more error-prone, depends on execution as well.
Also, some framedata does not take into account meaties and travelling frames, if you dont hit on the first frame the result will differ.
LP SPARK : 14 / 52 / -12
38 recovery - 26 blockstun = -12
If you FADC the recovery frames, you have 26 frames of stun in which case you dash forward spending 21 frames, and have 5 frames of stun to do a combo.
26 stun - 21 dash frames = 5 frames
MP SPARK 22 / 52 / -4
30 - 26 blockstun = -4
26 - 21 dash frames = 5 frame
This would make sense. But the problem is hitstun adds 4 frames to this number. Fireballs have 26 frames of blockstun but 30 frames of hitstun so technically you should be at +9 after the fadc. Maybe FADC takes up 4 frames. Iono.
Maybe somebody can test how positive rose is after FADC’ing a fireball.
Soul Spark http://wiki.shoryuken.com/images/a/af/Jab.gif HL 80 50 30/20 su 14 - 52 (total duration) -12 -8 - -
Soul Spark http://wiki.shoryuken.com/images/6/6e/Strong.gif HL 80 50 30/20 su 22 - 52 (total duration) -4 0 - -
Soul Spark http://wiki.shoryuken.com/images/6/6b/Fierce.gif HL 80 50 30/20 su 29 - 53 (total duration) +2 +6 - -
Soul Spark http://wiki.shoryuken.com/images/c/c1/EX.gif HL 3070 5050 -250/0 su 14 - 48 (total duration) 0 +4 - -
Cancellable frames = total-frames - startup frames
LP spark: 52-14=38
MP spark: 52-22=30
HP spark: 53-29=24
EX spark: 48-14=34
Advantage frames after FADC = cancellable frames + hitsun
LP spark: 38+(-8) = 30
MP spark: 30+0 = 30
HP spark: 24+6= 30
EX spark: 35+4=38
FADC duration = total dash + uncancellable frames - 1 magic frame
Rose FADC: 21 + 4 - 1 = 24
LP spark FADC: 30 - 24 = 6
MP spark FADC: 30 - 24 = 6
HP spark FADC: 30 - 24 = 6
EX spark FADC: 38 - 24 = 14
This math would say that FADC gives you 6 frames instead of 5. I can’t find the error, so I’ll try to see if indeed FADC can link to 6-frame normals
Data about how FADC works comes from http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV/Original_Wiki_Page
Are we theoryfighting with frames?
From my experience, I have never been able to do 6f attack after a fireball fadc. Not one, whether it be even the hp one.The intervals in which you fadc for each one is different and all lead to +5 >.>
Theory confirms practical experience
I’m off by 1 frame to get the theory correct, one we find it it’s easier to quickly calculate changes/situations. Eg, you can calculate how many frames you have to hit EX spark FADC Ultra with this, something you can hardly prove in practice because you dont have many +10 frame moves to test with
edit: I’m thinking that you might be able to cancel the hitting frame itself. Startup of 4 in wiki means that 3 frames start up and the fourth hits. So if I subtract 1 from startup, then the math is correct.
However, that seems pretty hard to do, cancelling on the first frame. But perhaps SF4 buffers help with this.
Oh wait, there is a 4-frame delay to cancel moves, so it’s logical the first hitting frame is part of that.
By “(tap)” I meant instead of holding down focus (mp+mk) while dashing, you can just tap it. As long as the dash is in the input buffer your focus will be cancelled immediately. Basically you can enter the dash before the FA instead of afterwards, which gives you more leeway on the timing. Because of input leniency there’s a few different ways of entering the FADC, but the above is what seemed easiest to me.
oh i see. about the buffering, after u do the hfc+p, can u hold forward for the first forward, then tap forward +mp+mk and will it cancel that way? thanks in advance