Loads of questions from a Saikyo amateur

dan

#1

Dear Dan fellows,

I am new to this forum, and still kinda new to SF since I only got the game for Christmas.

As a quick introduction, I play on PSN under the same name. Since the very beginning I have been seduced by Dan’s awesome personality, and decided to start maining him as I entered G2. After about 200 hours playing, I am still working my way through G2, having got only 5.200 GP so far. I must also add that I am the mildly happy owner of a Madcatz SF4 arcade stick (Tournament edition), which I thought would dramatically improve my execution - and was wrong. Let’s add that my ultimate goal is to reach G1 and hopefully get a replay some day :slight_smile:

My questions are not all specific to Dan (and apologies if any has already been answered somewhere else on this forum, I have read all I could before asking), but I prefer to get answers from Dan players who’ve been through the ordeals of the Saikyo Path, just as I currently am.

So :

  1. I am still not convinced about Dan’s knee. It does stuff a lot of moves such as lariats, but it is very slow to come out, leaving Dan open for a good while before actually hitting. It seems many moves are fast enough to take me down before the Dan knee becomes effective. Am I just too slow? Anyway, under which circumstances is it really key to use it?

  2. How to deal with shoto’s crossup? One of my greatest weaknesses… Everytime I get crossed up, I am unable to block the first blow and end up getting the full serie of jabs/sweep or hadoken. What’s the trick to block it?

  3. In terms of myself crossing up opponents, when I fail to land the j-mk, I often end up being thrown. Can I prevent that from happening by countering with a throw of my own, or is Dan just so slow that he has to wait for the punishment?

  4. Leading me to my next question : are Dan’s throws any good in terms of range or priority compared to other character’s throws (excluding Zangief, Honda and Abel of course)?

  5. I have heard of a Dan’s “mini kara-throw”. Is that a fact? If so, is it useful and how do you do it?

  6. Now a question about Dan’s ultra. Many times now, I have been able to connect a j-mk cross-up straight into Ultra. Or so it seems. It happened again yesterday night on a Cammy. She was standing, and I hit her with the j-mk, landing behind here. By either instinct or mistake, here I went again and entered the Ultra command (that happens a lot : I am not always in control of what I do, sometimes my hands just seem to have a will of their own… probably the power of Saikyo rising in me). So, the Ultra animation started while Cammy was in shock after my awesome kick, and she seemingly didn’t have the time to recover before the Ultra lands.
    In the same context, I do get my Ultra blocked quite often. But it also does land a number of times, leaving me with the feeling that I can actually land the Ultra that way, providing I time it right. I understand some players would just try to enter a desperate command to stuff my Ultra or simply to retaliate to my crossup, and therefore eat my Ultra in the face, but is this really all there is to it??

  7. Is it possible/recommended to FAC through very fast projectiles such as tiger balls and booms? If not, how to approach the spamming bastards - especially Sagat since he would just tiger knee me everytime I dare closing the space between us with a jump or flying taunt ?

  8. I am very surprised by the gaps I find between G2 players in terms of skill level. Some with 2K GP would just annihiliate me in a matter of seconds, zoning perfectly and stuffing any single one of my attempts, while some with more than 12K would play like real noobs, not even blocking my moves. I personnally consider myself below average, having won about 30% matches to date (I acknowledge my own scrubbiness, but I am still sure that I would have at least 50% of wins by now, had I decided to main Sagat instead of Dan). So my question is : how different is G1? No doubt I will meet lots of high level players, but since grade points can be gained by playing a lot rather than by being real good, is there a hope to keep finding some easy preys in G1?

Well, that’s it for now… If any question is really not relevant or has already been answered time and time again, please kick my ass and redirect me :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Goatson


#2

Unless you grind like a mad man you won’t reach G1 before Super :stuck_out_tongue: Don’t worry though, Super will let you save replays :slight_smile:

  1. The key is timing, and to a certain degree conditioning your opponents. Using it in combos and on opponent’s wake-up is a prime time for it, it stuffs quite a few normals too and generally you’ll only get jabbed out of it, which isn’t all that bad. LK Dankuu is the core of Dan’s rush down and pressure game, putting him at the very least 0 on block and anywhere up to +10 or something (I forget how much exactly) enables you to be in control in a lot of situations. If you haven’t already take a look at my video on it ~> [media=youtube]gwArd8cR73E[/media] shameless plug! :stuck_out_tongue:

  2. Cross-ups just block the other way fast enough. If you know they’re going to try it block it by holding forward instead of backwards. If they’re the sort to do cross-up j.MK > c.LP x2 > cross-up j.MK > c.LP x2 etc. etc. just mash out a Kouryuken and it’ll teach them to not use such scrubby tactics. “Safer” option is to do a nj.MK and catch them in the air (doesn’t work against Gen, need to do a jump back attack to stuff his attempt).

  3. Yes you should be able to tech the throw if you mistime the cross-up, however you’re most likely trying for a combo and therefore will get thrown out of the follow-up attack (happens to me a bit :().

  4. Dan’s back throw is awesome, purely for the fact it sets up a lot of tricks and also cross-ups, also does a bit more damage than the forward throw which doesn’t really give you much time to follow it up with anything. All standard throws have the same priority, it’s just a matter of range. Dan’s back throw is a little shorter than the forward one (0.9 to 1.0 I believe) but they’re quite average ranges, only problem is missing a throw makes Dan lean forward moving his hit boxes forward allowing him to get thrown when he wouldn’t have before.
    Incidentally I’m thinking of making a tutorial video around his throw tactics, might just be too much to cover though.

  5. I haven’t heard of such, I don’t think he has a kara-throw and if he has it certainly isn’t worth using.

  6. Don’t do that :stuck_out_tongue: Are you sure it combo’d? You can combo Ultra after a deep j.HP or j.HK but j.MK has pretty weak hit-stun in comparison, if it did combo then you must have scored a counter hit otherwise it’s not possible. I believe the Ultra itself is 8 hits, if it did actually combo you should see it saying you did 9 hits.

  7. Dan’s dash is slow, unless you’re full screen you’ll just eat another fireball to the face so no sadly, best bet is to jump over them safely or just walk forward and block it.

  8. It’s amazing how far random BS can take you, especially if you have an advantageous match up like with the top tiers. I can’t really answer the question though since I’m not in G1 myself but from what I’ve seen there still is quite a few scrubby players in there, there’s just more decent ones and less scrubby ones but you’re bound to run into them. All it takes is endless grinding to get into G1 after all. You should really hope to find better players rather than scrubs, you won’t learn anything from playing against scrubs other than anti-scrub tactics and that won’t improve your overall game :frowning:


#3

Well, dude, that’s a proper response and no mistake!! :))

Super SF4 soon, with built in replay?? That’s music to my ears! Let’s just try to get less scrubby before getting the game then!

  1. Thanks! I have actually watched several Dan videos recently, yours also. Awesome stuff. That and the Dan Ain’t No Joke video are like God’s work to me.

  2. Thanks! Can’t wait to try that out.

  3. Same!

  4. Would love to see such a video!

  5. Nevermind that, I’d probably be too slow to execute it correctly.

  6. Not sure whether it actually combo’d or not. As you said, I will try to reproduce the situation (happens at least two three times a week) and let you know. I can confirm anyway that it is with j-mk crossing up, nothing to do with j-hk which is an official thing. it might be because of a counter as well, I’ll have to check that out as well.

  7. Thanks! I’ll probably just sit and the corner and keep asking them what the problem is :smiley:

  8. Acknowledged! What’s the story then, you look like you’re a fierce Dan player yourself : are you playing ranked rather than championship? (and any chance of finding you on PSN?).

Well, thanks again!!


#4

Sugami posted exactly what you needed to know. While I’m a bit astray from saikyo path right now, I can try answering some.

  1. Due to online latency, it is generally harder to block cross-ups than in offline. But as Sugami said, block the other way. Well, you can try mashing KRK until the opponent gets hit, but it’s not my recommendation.

  2. Dan’s only atks with 3 start-up frames are throws. I use throws more than I do with other characters.

  3. Online player’s skill is pretty much random. I met a ryu who’s really good at blocking and linking stuff, and I also met a ryu who I beat with Gen using only j.MK -> c.LK -> c.HK, while he was all the time trying to SRK.
    I’m in G1 and I’m a noob, so that pretty much explains it. You will, however, see that there are more G1 players who utilizes zoning and footsies more, than there are G2 players.


#5

Damn latency… From where I am (Ireland), there is no helping having a crappy connection and playing with remote other users…

But thanks, I did get loads of precious advices today :slight_smile:


#6
  1. To follow up on this point, cross-up j.MK > s.MP xx LK Dankuu should be a staple in your arsenal if it isn’t already (might I have said that to you already? :P) You can use HK Dankuu as well, gives you less options on block but against the scrubs there’s a good chance they won’t block the cross-up. Know that the combo doesn’t work against crouching Chun and Akuma, best just to use c.MK xx Gadouken or maybe a string of light attacks.

  2. I’ll certainly give it thought, I do enjoy making tutorial videos :bgrin: The options are almost limitless off a back throw, some are more advantageous than others depending on character and player you’re facing (i.e. MK Dankuu cross-up against SRK spam-happy Ryu is not advised where cross-up j.MK combo would probably work a lot better :P).

  3. Fierce? I don’t know about that, I just like to arm myself with as much knowledge as possible but sadly not able to apply it all that well in practice :frowning: Pfft no one plays ranked anymore :stuck_out_tongue: I’m just not interested in Internet numbers so the only time I’m in Championship is for recording videos (which is once every week or two). I’d rather play player matches with friends, I derive little satisfaction playing random scrubfests against strangers. “Sadly” I’m not on PSN, which is a shame since it’s hard to find a Dan who lives so close to me (England) :frowning:

Yah very true, especially since Dankuu leave you right in throwing range a lot of the time so if you’re 0 to -3 on block your only offensive options throw or Kouryuken (also vertical/neutral jumping and back dashing too).


#7

Id say in G1 most players are pretty good.

G3 I could win champs with Dan easy
G2 i could win champs with Gief easy, Dan not so much
G1 I rarley make it to champs with gief, and even less with Dan. I lose first round the most with Dan, but it seems if I win that first one i ussually get a good streak.


#8

There’s no real difference between G2 and G3 currently, G3 might actually have better players since it’d have quite a few people who rarely play it (online) or started a new account.

The only “real” reason why it’s harder to win is you need 4 wins in a row rather than 3 :slight_smile:


#9

Here I come with a new question!

I get all the time beaten in the air by Ryu and Ken’s j-hk. We jump pretty much at the same time and they release the hk, and then whatever I do I just eat it.
Is there any move among Dan’s air moves that can beat this damn shoto j-hk?? No need to mention the j-lk danku, which either I am too slow to do in these circumstances or it takes too many frames to come out…


#10

Predict it and do Air Knee sooner :stuck_out_tongue:

Saying that j.LK or j.LP might do the trick.


#11

Mhh, I thought I had tried that but it’s worth a retry :slight_smile:

Of course I know I should simply avoid jumping, but I suck too much at dashs and FDC- and I love cross up…


#12

I usually “win” about 80% of the “jumping encounters” with Ryus and Kens, just using Jumping LK Danku.

This has made me rely on it a bit too much - I ended up doing a LK-Danku every time I jumped. And was hard-punished by a couple akumas for this - they can make good use of the recovery. So now I don’t do it on every jump, but I still do it a lot.


#13

But then you’ve got to enter the QCB lk right after jumping, or jump slightly before they do? I mean, it is very hard for me to be quick in entering the jlk danku command. My Dan would always release the danku when he is already on the descending part of his jump, not befor… And that’s why I get stuffed by the shoto’s jhk, which take almost no time to enter and activate…


#14

Do it in one smooth motion, UF F DF D DB B+LK, if you do it fast then you get what looks like a regular grounded LK Dankuu but with a higher arc, slow it down a bit more and you can do it at the peak or near the peak of your jump before you start descending.


#15

Cool. Btw, do you recommend stick or pad for smooth motions like that?
I actually just received the Madcatz SF4 pad and will try it tonight, but I am still wondering if depending on the character you play you would need rather a stick or a pad.


#16

Madcatz pad didn’t work out for me, I’ve heard varying reports on them so don’t know if the problem was just the way I use pads or the pad was kinda shitty but I had issues getting even simple quarter circle motions down. I use a modded Madcatz Fight Stick (standard edition) with Sanwa parts including an octagonal gate instead of the standard square gate.

The majority of SRK will tell you to use a stick, in the end it comes down to what you’re comfortable with most. If you have a stick or know someone with one I’d recommend trying it out if you haven’t done already. There might be some arcades near you to try it out (have a friend who lives in Dublin too).


#17

Never seen an arcade in Dublin, just got the game cause I liked it on SNES :slight_smile:
And I do already have the madcatz tournament edtion stick, but i don’t like it. The square gate is crap, and the top ball that is not stuck in place and keeps turning in my hand is a real pain in the arse for me.
On top of that, the stick and buttons are extremely noisy when mashed, and I woke my wife and my baby up a few times at night already - it’s not the best option in my situation :slight_smile:


#18

Hehe, the ball is meant to turn :stuck_out_tongue: I could probably find out where some of the arcades are for you but if you don’t like the stick then you don’t like the stick. Believe it or not I have a Hori EX2 stick that’s noisier than the Madcatz ones :stuck_out_tongue: All parts are quite clicky, think it depends on the body that determines how much of the clicking noises are “absorbed” ^^

Incidentally a new gate is pretty cheap, I modded all my buttons, stick and got a new gate for around 20 methinks so not too bad.


#19

Well, I could try to mod mine as well. Where do you get the parts, and what skills do you need to make the modding? Is screw/unscrew enough? :slight_smile:
Don’t understand why the ball needs to turn though. Ages ago I had two arcade sticks, one for Megadrive and one for SNES, and the ball on those wasn’t turning. I was much happier this way.

Actually, after trying the Madcatz pad for two hours, I must say this might be the most comfortable controler for me. Two things though : the buttons are way to close for people with big thumbs, well, for guys… When I try to FA I end up taunting or throwing cause I push four buttons instead of two… And my left hand is going to suffer for a while before its muscles and skin get strong enough…


#20

http://www.gremlinsolutions.co.uk/products/sanwa-gt-y.htm this is where I got my parts from, 4.25 + VAT for the octagonal gate so not bad. Opening the stick up voids the warantee, it’s mostly easy but can be very stubborn. The biggest trouble I had was with replacing the buttons (broke one in the process of removing it) but you’d only be replacing the gate which isn’t too bad. I don’t really think changing the gate will make all your troubles go away though, I still have issues with whatever gate I’m using :stuck_out_tongue:

If the pad works for you then stick with it (pun not intended :P), have you tried resting it in your lap and hovering your fingers over the buttons rather than using your thumb?