Looking for synergy where it doesn't exist

x-23

#1

My team back in Vanilla was Tron/X-23/Skrull but when Ultimate came the team was not as good. I kinda gave up on the game for a bit. When i came back I played Zero/Morrigan/Doom. Its fun and all but I miss my X-23 team. I want to try a variation on my vanilla team with either Tron/X-23/Doom or Tron/X-23/Nova. The problem with this is that i can’t find a way for X-23 to benefit from Tron assists and Tron only benefits from X when she is extremely close. Is there a chance of this team working or should I go to a team which has synergy for X-23 which is X-23/Dorm/Vergil?


#2

I know we have another Tron/X23 player that held on through ultimate. If you video and teambuilding thread I think there some match vids from him somewhere.

The only tron team I ever considered running was Tron/Frank W./X23 so that X23 only had to be an extender or janky hi/low for Frank. Plus annoying to kill point that gets level 5 frank for free and X23+Cart is pretty fantastic in neutral, though you’ll have to do like 3 resets to kill anyone because you can’t use it for anything else. When I looked into it, I wasn’t able to find anything amazing for X23+any Tron assist and I was mostly just using AS as a janky Clakey D extender. I don’t believe there is great synergy between these two, but Tron builds a lot of meter just by dying and XF2 X23 kill 2 people to make up for it, if you can call that synergy.

That said, wouldn’t this make more sense in the team-building thread?


#3

Thanks a lot for the help.
Yeah sorry I originally had the question worded differently so i didn’t think it fit there.


#4

I was the Tron/Deadpool/X23 player, but quite frankly, I played that team despite the lack of synergy, not because of it. Here’s 100% all of my tech:

Tron Air series, call AS assist + dash, immediate King Kobun allowed for double King ender (usually resulting upwards to 1.1mil dmg).
King Kobun DHC to a quickly recovering super + call AS assist, overhead attack = 2 meter unblockable.
Do a combo to kill Phoenix with 2nd hit of Lunch Rush, DHC to Dirt Nap before she dies = guaranteed kill for Dark Phoenix.
Boulder assist + charged AS in the corner allows WXP to connect.
King Kobun DHCed to WXP is safe in the corner, allows a combo if they try to push buttons (gimmicky).

I’ve since dropped Tron because I decided I wanted to be more competitive in the scene.


#5

Sorry Jaytoo, everyone’s gone through so many team iterations lately that I couldn’t remember who played what, lol.


#6

Does that mean you also drop X23 in favor of a character capable of more dmg and less strain on team format?


#7

Nope. I’m a firm believer that X-23 is an end-game character, so I think it’s worth it despite the strain.

And damage doesn’t matter if you have TAC infintes + threat of a sj. reset =P.

On that matter, X-23 being low damage is just simply not true anymore. Her bnbs do more damage than Wolverine in the right teams.


#8

Glad you’re sticking around <3

On that note, I do not believe your Tron was that bad. I think it had more to do with X23 being utilized as a dark anchor.


#9

just bringin this up, why do you think she is end game?

the Dirt Nap trap might be but I think Lara the point character is absolutely terrible


#10

Second slot Laura is her most naturalistic spot, but she still has to deal with a strong incoming and there’s no safe DHC. At point, she has two assist to work with instead of one and with TAC infinites you can still reach the same endgame strategy as long as you build an extra meter for the second silent kill.

I really feel like there’s no need to put her at second anymore with the available tech at our disposal.


#11

First off, I completely disagree that X23 is “absolutely terrible” on point. She’s one of the characters that can dominate her good matchups, but lose badly to her bad matchups. This puts her solidly in B-tier, but I think it’s notable that she has good or even matchups against some of the top-tier.

(Off the top of my head, I think she beats Spencer, Viper, and Vergil, goes even-ish with Magneto and Wolverine, loses to Morrigan, Dormammu, Zero, Doom.)

Matchups aside, I think 1 infinite, 2 dirt nap team structures are going to play a part of endgame. The interesting thing about those team structures is that they can be pulled off with X23 never really coming into play (point character/X23/infinite character).
(As a tangent, similar teams can be constructed with Shuma, who also has a better assist… but then you’d have to play Shuma instead of X23, heh.)


#12

lol wow we do not see this character the same at all. I think she gets annihilated by all the top tiers, especially Vergil. She loses absolutely free to the most important character in the game too (Doom). She’s got nothing on point that other characters don’t do far better

but we end up at the same conclusion. If she’s end game it’ll be because of Dirt Nap and certainly not because of whatever she can do as a point character (less than anybody else in the game except She Hulk and Iron Fist). and even then those new guard breaks using DHC anti-air grabs are just as cheap and you can use better characters to do em. like frank.


#13

She has the best ground movement in the game, bar none. Combine that with MFC, and I’d say she’s one of the best frame trap characters in the game. You could maybe argue that Spencer’s pressure is better, but Spencer’s normals are considerably slower, and Spencer doesn’t have a divekick, nor is he as good at whiff punishing.

Of course, ground footsies isn’t necessarily that important in this game, though, lol. Against characters that don’t care about your ground movement, or can safely fill the space in front of them with hitboxes, she obviously has some trouble.


#14

I think she has some of the best non-flight movement in the game, both air and ground. Pair that with an assist like Log and she’s an absolute terror on point, then round it out with an infinite character that guarantees dirt nap setups (namedly, IM) and you’re golden. This team covers a ton of matchups between the 3 of them. I start IM point all the time if it’s someone I’d rather not play X23 against and IM + Log is a rediculously good battery and a huge pain in the ass to try and crack.

On point with a team actually built around her she TODs meter neutral (or 800+k into 1+ meter positive snaps), Corner to corner to corner carry with the right teams, TAC-fake mixups that lead into full combo or a won match you opt for the TAC, she has some of the fastest and most abiguous left/right mixups, some of the safest blockstrings in the game, and is the only character that I know of that can pull off the 1 touch / 1 TAC / 3 kill gameplan consistently (important note on it being 1 33% gamble).

The guardbreak stuff isn’t going to be able to do that unless you use some specific team that allows for hard tags because the damage scaling is so ridiculously high off all of those setups unless you resort to multiple TAC infinites (its 2 meters to guard break every time and it usually takes a DHC to kill after an optimal command grab setup.) Not to mention those teams are at risk of snaps screwing up their team order and losing the synergy altogether. Those setups won’t be able to replace dirt nap by simple meter and damage requirements unless you’re relying on multiple TAC infinites.

She is a really terrifying character in her own right (on point or 2nd), dirt nap is just what makes her game-breaking. I easily put her at A+ tier any day and SSS once you start including dirt nap.

Honestly Temps, you’re probably the last person I would expect to be treating X23 like an IM player.


#15

I’ve never seen him drop the character completely though, he just goes through salty months with her then picks her back up later on. Trauma did the same thing when the game came out and he didn’t like some of the changes.

I feel like there’s no reason to put her at second anymore because of the way the game has evolved. CS counter and XF2 are great, but I don’t think it weighs out the annoying cons. No safe DHC, 50/50 incoming if the point dies, no practical self-infinite, subpar assist use, that’s like 4 things right there. We all laughed at DM Brandon when he said everybody that put Laura at second had failed early on, but it’s becoming true by the day. The structure that seems to fit her gameplan to reach endgame now is: Larua/Infinite Character/Support. **Battery/Laura/Support **is putting too much of a strain on Laura to win our matches, and it will only get you so far in tourneys. Meep, DJ, Kubo, etc. have notably tried to make it work. We can theoretically reach the same endgame by placing Laura anywhere but the trade-off is that we give up a good assist we can otherwise use if she wasn’t second/third.

I think X23 beats specific matchups depending on the players ability to stay in and cover neutral. A good X23 does not fear Dorm at all, there’s nothing Dorm can do against good pressure from X23. He could pick her off an assist like beam or spam dark spells/HM, but that’s the best thing he could hope for. I don’t think X23 beats Viper, but it’s not by a whole lot. I’m not biased off the ass whooping Chrisis handed me at Evo, Viper is an extremely good character with a lot of invincible moves but I believe X23 can hold her ground against her if they know the matchup. X23 going even with Mags is rough, Gravitation has some scary mixups and guessing high/lows is not fun. Hyper Grav stops Talon abuse and Shockwave blows up stuff. If your Walljump is becoming predictable you are getting thrown, and Mag throws spell instant death. I don’t like that matchup at all, in fact, I think it’s some of her worst along with Zero/Doom. Good Vergils are hard to open up, but X23 has the tools to do so.

X23 is a solid B tier. She will probably be hovering around those depths forever until notable players explore the character and start winning more majors, but the only one’s I’ve seen that have a particular interest in her is Yipes.


#16

Is this becoming the matchup thread? lol

I agree you can maul Dorm once you get in, but my trouble with that matchup is getting in if he’s gotten some space. Once he lays a flame carpet down and starts charging spells, I can only approach from jumping, then cr.M can stuff me?.. then he throws out a Stalking flare, and charges spells. I can WXP through the flare on reaction, but he can DHC, eat the WXP damage, and I still have to block the flare + a subsequent mixup from the other character.

I like the Magneto matchup because X23 can easily capitalize any small mistake Mags does: dash under the Blast, dash up punish Disruptor from mid-screen, st.H MFC tridash. If you stay mobile on the ground, there’s no reason for you to get caught in a lockdown assist, imo. Hypergrav beats Talon…but loses to everything else, lol.


#17

lol yeah I started playing her again lately. On point now though.

It’s weird, I think she still is strongest in the 2nd position just because of how silly her XF2 and Dirt Nap stuff is, but not having a safe DHC to save your point character, or a fast full screen DHC to blow up bad assist calls, really hurts. Her DP assist actually isn’t bad especially with a highly mobile confirm-anything character like Magneto. That actually might make up for the no-safe-DHC in part since you can just alpha counter in… aside from talon attack being so bad on whiff.

I still think she has a lot of flaws as a character… but she can kind of be like Wolverine. I think she can maul people pretty good right off the hop although not having a comboable ground throw is a bit of an issue. If you can keep her momentum up she has more than enough to chew through a team especially with a good combo extender assist, but if she loses momentum I find she has one hell of a time trying to get it back again. Especially once sword characters get room to swing you are going to have a really hard time trying to start things up, and have to lean too heavily on assists you can’t protect that well. I also don’t like how aside from maybe plasma beam, her best assists are on generally crappy characters like Iron Man, Raccoon or Strange.

mostly I just got spoiled by playing too much Magneto. I’d spend 30 seconds in the lab and find clear, clean, low risk answers to things that give me absolute fits as X-23. and just backing up and shooting everything with lasers when I can’t find a clear approach is a lot easier than trying to put Laura’s body in just the right spot to hit the other guy