Low tier teams, tron and non tron teams


#1

so there are 2 types of low tier really. Those who have tron on their team and those who don’t but depending on the type of character you’re fighting, you might want to think about switching it up team chemistry wise.

For instance, lets take my favorite low tier team, spidey\morrigan ron. Now, this team is very good, unblockable overheads, unblockable super, team function with point\aa\horizontal assist, nasty dhc’s that does 95% life etc… I could keep going. The main problem with this team is that it suffers from run away. Spidey or morrigan can’t get up there to fight storm or mag. Even a defensive robot will give this team problems. This type of team basically shines when you get a pin sequence that leads to life. Spidey has death loops as well as morrigan that are damn near impossible to block consistently imo but they have to catch someone which can be rather difficult and risky.

After playing low tier for about 2 years now, I see that characters who aren’t stupid fast or can’t catch run away need mando. This will prevent any run away that the opponent might do and force your opponent into dealing with you which is what you want from a low tier.

so far, I’ve noticed 2 thing to stop run away. You either need a character that can rival storms air angles\game or need a character thats extremely fast on the ground. Storm eventually comes back down to ground sooner or later. The majority of the low tier can’t chase storm to the top of the screen so you use characters with extremely fast ground dashes to make up for her float angles when she’s floating down.

to me its like this. If your character can’t catch run away storm in the air or ground, pick mando as your primary assist and form game plans around him. If your character can get away with nasty ground dashes pick tron. and lastly, if you don’t feel like switching up, there’s always the possibility of dealing with storm with a character that can’t catch her. Something like that though results in a lot of risks and you could very well end up killing yourself just to stop her from running away. Not something I would be willing to trade up or down with.

since spidey has quite a hard time dealing with storm that doesn’t want to play, I might think twice about running spidey\morrigan ron. Since thats the case, I might pick spidey\gambit\mando. Even though I don’t have tron and my offense in general is kinda nerfed up, I still have mobility tools to force storm to deal with spidey. Spidey’s roll as a character kinda changes w\o tron. W\ tron he’s rush down and looping shit. w\ mando, he’s more zone into CH. He still can rush down with mando but its not exactly the same as it is with tron.

I’ve been looking @ wolvie lately after watching and receiving vdo’s beat downs, wolvie is extremely fast on the ground, one of the better dashes in the game. So I could care less if she went up and away. With this type of counter in place, picking tron is actually beneficial. I’ll get damage output, chip and a threat to storm every time she decides to run because I get mixups upon landing.

if vdo ever ran something like speed up wolvie\morrigan ron, good god…shit would not be fun.

just my 2 cents on low tier.


#2

good post.

I find speed-up wolvie/tron to be a nightmare for just about every char. Sent in corner has a hard enough time against wolv/tron (no speedup).

I remember hearing about m. bison being good with Tron , but haven’t heard anything since.

Chunli/tron? haven’t seen a good Chunli in person or on video, though there are claims that she’s good.


#3

standing lp+tron first attack is so gay, some guy around here uses it randomly and does very well with speed up sometimes.


#4

bison is nasty with tron. Bison is pretty damn good when played properly. He doesn’t need mando on his squad because his teleport tracks the opponent. So if storm goes off the screen to run, bison is going to appear above her or as high as he can go off screen.

speed up wolvie has faster normals in speed up mode and his s.jab becomes 1 frame rather than 2.

For general low tier purposes, I would learn the better AA’s for low tier and the better projectiles for low tier so you can mix and match chemistries.

I’m really feeling non tron teams @ the moment so I’m messing around with a few things.

metal wolv\gambit\capcom

nasty dhc, safe dhc, gambit\capcom is raw as a duo, speed up wolvie still works but much more effective with tron. I see that its going to be pretty hard to get wolvy off you on this team.

spidey\ruby\capcom

safe dhc’s and damaging ones on hit, rush down is still an option behind ruby heart, ruby AA cancels out most other prjectiles allowing me to zone, combo’s hurt, crossups are pretty fast with spidey on point, ruby\capcom as a duo is nasty. Capcom\ruby as a duo is nasty. call ruby AA with mando on point, rh throw, qcf+pp combo’s. you can op to do a qcb+p instead of the super so its decent life either way. mando really likes ruby AA and fights pretty well with it.

ruby\gambit\capcom

safe dhcs\damaging ones, gambit on point: c.lk, c.mk, c.rh, call ruby AA, flash kick+k is a crossup. The zone ruby provides is pretty solid for gambit, he likes it there. Over all safe and cheesy team.


#5

I haven’t paired up Commando with Ruby AA yet, sounds like it would be really good though. I’m feeling qcf ninjas plus ruby assist o yes.

My brother pretty much plays only Spidey/Akuma/Commando and does really well with it. You hit it on the head with counter hits into combos as the basic game-plan for Spidey/CapCom. He used to have another random low in place of Mando, but i would walk all over him with top/mid style teams, but Spidey/Mando is certainly a reputable non-tron low tier duo.

Coming off of a Vampire Savior kick, so BBHood is in heavy rotation at the moment (where the fuck is Q-Bee?). Any ideas for team setup? Had the wacky idea to try to re-up my first marvel team from day one-- BBHood/Shuma/Guile. Interaction is wayy better than i knew. Ruby AA or Ken AA are my starting points if i decide i want to ditch Guile, but Tron is an EASY swap for Shuma. Problem for me is when it starts to feel that i’m cheating myself out of that miracle of low tier that you get when you find one of the (growing) handful of squads that A.) doesnt need Tron and B.) absolutely crushes regardless. So…

To tron or not to tron?


#6

I would love any info on spidey\capcom eczangief. I’m having a hard time trying to grasp the way it should be played. Too much tron will do that to you :rofl:

some people will only play low tier w\o tron and I love playing low tier so I’m willing to follow any format. That way people can’t say I need tron to win with bums.

as for bbhood, she’s really nasty. hood\ruby AA is flat out annoying. There’s a guy called 300lb eugene who doesn’t post much but he has an amazing hood. See if you can dig up anything on him posting shit up.


#7

tron immediately makes a lot of people nasty


#8

rather than ‘tone down’ low tier by not using tron, how about beating top tier most of the time by using tron?

i think that’s a tougher challenge. You also learn to block really well and learn how important a ‘landing mixup’ is (i.e., a mixup when Storm or BH, for instance, finally come down from the air. mastering a ‘landing’ crossup is about the only way you’ll beat either of those 2, as they’ll beat just about anything you have if you try to take them out from the air.).


#9

I’ve mentioned it already and I said its up to the player to decide. Weather or not they want to stick with tron and work vs run away or pick mando to counter run away. Some characters really have a hard time trying to stop her w ron so eventually, there’s a risk to stop her. When you constantly risk stopping her just for a mixup, you’re bound to be hit by something to zap your life.

risking for a mixup is just isn’t a healthy risk reward ratio. Say you risk something and get a pin, you’re not guaranteed any life right there. You’re only guaranteed potential life that if your opponent fucks up blocking. Say she blocks out and gets away again, you have to risk again for POTENTIAL damage thats not guaranteed.


#10

In a landing mixup you have the advantage, both in terms of position (you can choose which side you come from while they’ve usually exhausted their options and furthermore, you can crossup on the side they are not facing.) and frame advantage (you can start executing your j. fierce early on and combo into super), which is a key point. It’s critical you also make the person block, so you either do crossups at a landing mixup, when you have frame advantage (like after FS) or location advantage(for example, in the corner).

Another example… a landing mixup is 1 way you know a good player who knows how to play against bh vs. one who doesn’t. Instead of risking the fight against BH’s sj. rh, sj. short and sj. jab in the air, they just wait underneath BH to see where BH will land (after he’s exhausted his air dashes and what not) then crossup from 1 of 4 blocking points = death.

I actually had a theory that one of the most important criteria of the top tier are that their ‘landing spots’ that are difficult to determine (Storm and Sentinel being the hardest). This is also why I think Cable is the lowest of the top tier/big4.


#11

some cna jab out of that, so you don’t always have an advantage, but as you said. it seriously is one of the most important mixup tools you can learn. only certain matchups, does the opponent have the advantage of being able to jab out.


#12

true. the biggest threat I see is a falling sj. jab into manual sj. magic series xx super. That’s the only real defense against a landing crossup (Yipes and Wong are the only ones I’ve seen who do this from time to time)… i think 99% of the marvel population will nail you with a sj. jab and that’s it, which I find to be a minimal penalty.

btw, … when are you gonna post your m. bison/tron goodies in the bison forum?? :slight_smile:


#13

m.bison? wtf, i don’t use bison. i just commented that a lot of characters get bonuses when with tron.


#14

ruby\capcom is flat out nasty. Definitely nothing to sleep on. Since ruby has her own projectiles, she doesn’t need one to be effective. Just an AA so she becomes pretty diverse team chemistry wise. You can basically form teams around xxx\ruby\capcom. You can put a projectile on it or stick another low tier on it because you like the character. Maybe something like ken\ruby\capcom. iirc, ruby spike can be used with ken’s roll to create a crossup, and the spike sets up the kenfinite.

of course, capcom isn’t the end all answer for low tier and stopping run away. If the other guy has doom ron and storm, its a battle now. I might think of switching to ken AA and beating up on the assist to force storm down and deal with me. Ken AA with a fierce behind it will do solid life.

One thing to note about speed up wovlie is that for assist damage backed by an AA, his speed up allows him to constantly do damage to the assist and rejuggle. Pretty devastating with capcom and speed up wolvie can’t be guard canceled. He’s just too fast.


#15

yes, ruby/doom/capcom was an old school team used against me…timing assists and waves from pushblocks and whatnot, I was trapped to death : X

that shit don’t happen anymore against the dude, but only cause I’ve advanced and he didn’t…


#16

what about stryder/MM/tron or MM/tron/doom?


#17

I’ve never tried MM/tron, but for the most part, Tron requires a point character that is highly mobile, otherwise you’ll never get in close enough to use Tron effectively. That’s why morrigan, wolverine, cammy, mag, storm, etc. all work wonders with tron.

That said, I think Strider works well with Tron, though quite differently than strider/doom. And Strider/doom is slightly better pressure wise than strider/tron, although it’s fun to get off 50/50 lockdowns and teleport crossups (try s.fierce + tron xx teleport behind. 3rd ring hits when you’re on the other side).

I’ve seen Doom/tron and wasn’t that impressed. Maybe someone else has seen otherwise.


#18

I love stryder/tron crossups ,maybe tron/doom would do better then.DDD is wicked. Ive been working on a effective trap with MM/doom which is rocks+soccer ball…j Hp kick ball repeat.Sadly I dont see ppl here talking bout MM/doom at all.