The gods would obviously be banned, but in terms of using ratios on certain top tier characters, how would you guys go about doing so? Or would you guys just ban top tier as well?
Banned characters: Mag, sent, cable, storm, Iron man, WM, Blackheart, Cyclops, Spiral, and Dr.Doom. This takes care of the God/Top tiers.
Top assists banned(can still pick character just not the assist): Commando(AA), Psylock(AA), Iceman(Proj), and Tron(Proj).
^ All of the above is the BEST setting for an environment geared towards low-tier game play, as 95% of the broken cheese/cheapness of marvel is now thrown out. Its about as close to “balanced” as it can be.
those rules suck.
why ban tron? top tiers have the ability to do massive amounts of life, zone off the screen and create offense aside from other things. Tron gives those elements of high level marvel to low tier marvel. A character like spiderman is ok w\some assists but combined with tron, he’s just flat out retarded. No other character in the game is going to open up his game play like tron will and tron doesn’t only do this for spidey. She does this with practically every low tier there is. Simply put, low tiers are just better with tron.
besides, tron can be beaten by some pretty crappy AA’s. All you gotta do is time it properly.
You’re trying to fix a game thats broken already. You can’t fix broken or balance broken. It stays broken.
for the most part, people complain about her damage output as an assist but I don’t see the point of that. If you get hit by magnus, his damage output is stupid too. If you get hit, you get hit regardless of damage output. If getting hit is such a problem, don’t fall for baits, cover your helpers properly and learn to block. These basic concepts are ever so present in high level marvel and is what expands the yomi game of marvel. By dumbing down it down and allowing more of these situations to take place, you’re only making the game more scrub friendly.
Look at my rules again, all the Top/God tiers have been banned already under my rule set. So there is no need for Tron to retain her proj. assist when against just the lower tiers(can still pick tron, just not that assist).
Allowing tron assist even when only against low-tiers just creates the same kind of “unfairness/cheapness” that was around when the high tiers were allowed.
The idea behind low-tier play is to be rid of the broken shit. Tron assist qualifies among that.
Yes but at least under my ruleset- the brokeness factor of marvel is much, MUCH reduced. As i’ve listed & banned the majority of the crap thats been responsible for marvel being broken all these years.
And THAT is what we WANT when aiming for a low-tier environment.
ummm, thats why its called marvellllllll
Again this is discussion for a low-tier environment, not typical marvel game play. Disagree if you like, i’m just putting in my 2 cents on what i’d personally do if i were putting together a LEGIT lower-tier tournment.
And in such a setting, crap like the Tron assist would definitely be long gone.
My personal opinion would be to allow the top assists to stay, except put a ratio limit on them so you can only have one, instead of stacking CapCom, Psylocke and Tron in one team
Just one is bad enough, a"low-tier" team backed by a top assist is not really low-tier at all. Any so-called Low-tourney that still allows use of the broken stuff like Tron, is just scrubby and only fooling themselves.
Besides there are PLENTY of non-top assists in the game that can be quite effective when used right. It won’t kill anyone to go without their commando AA or Tron Proj. for a change, and do research on alternative assists that are useful. A little creativity goes a long way.
Example: For Captain America users, Zangief’s spin lariat assist works great with him. Once connected it holds the opponent in place long enough to do any super you want, included those with long start-up, like Final justice. Spin assist is also excellent for warding off rushdown attempts with the threat there of getting caught with it.
When used right such an assist can almost be as threatening as Tron. See? Creativity people!
You really fucking overrate tron and capcom. there’s a good number of characters that can’t do shit with capcom.
Tron can be used more widley, but even then, she gets raped on block. (fucking chun-li AAA can stop tron.)
Even in low tiers the game is still unbalanced as fuck. The point of a tournament is to explore the other characters, not make the game more “fair” or un-broken.
by your logic we should ban every characters good assist. No Ken AAA or Gief armor lariat.
this thread is really up to debate. i guess the best way to decide what would be to post a question first regarding a specific character or a specific move and poll to see who thinks it is gdlk. i’m curious tho, let’s say mag, sent, cable, and storm are banned along with the others. a good player could likely do the following substitutes and be fine:
**mag (insane pressure/threat of infinite/assist killer): **
morrigan, rogue, wolvy (spd), sabretooth, gouki, charlie/guile (throw resets), dhalsim, anak (mum curse resets), captain america (all day crossups), spidey, cammy, strider, jill, psylocke
**storm (battery/runaway/full-screen punish): **
chun-li, bb hood, marrow, gambit, gouki, morrigan, dhalsim, hayato (infinite hc special w/ swordbeam hcs), tron, sakura (dark), bison, cammy, psylocke, iceman, strider (yep), servbot! (lol haha)
**sent (armor/sheer power/fortitude): **
juggy, silver sam (ice), gief (mech), jin, colossus, hulk, iceman
**cable (keepaway/range fighter): **
megaman, strider, captcom, thanos, gambit, ruby heart, dhalsim, venom, omega red, iceman
now let’s try to imagine what some of the “low-tier” tourney teams would look like…
the following characters would slowly begin to take the scene, imo:
mag (assistkill/mid-screen infinite/air dash): morrigan,dhalsim,chun-li,rogue, *strider
storm (runaway,fullscreen hc w/ full or good recovery,clock killer,battery, air dhc bonus):
ruby heart, dhalsim, marrow, gambit, bison
sent (dmg potential on-hit, reach, bonus if damaging dhc from ‘storm’):
hulk, juggy (glitched), iceman, colossus
cable (most dangerous,annoying,and effective long range trapping; guardbreak bonus):
ruby heart, iceman, *strider, megaman (w/ soccerball)
I like how you’re breaking it down there. Interesting. IMO there’s no real Sent equivalent, but i see what you’re going for. Nice.
you’re darn right there on the sent equivalent. imagine the uproar when sanford whips out a hulk death combo haha
can u say gamma chargexxgamma chargexxruby trap assistxxgamma chargexxgamma crush?
anyway, the transition would be painstaking for some, but smart play would still be possible
lol all around the marvel world, the following replacements would cause an upset:
clockwork replaced with strider/ juggz/ sabretooth
mss replaced with morrigan/dhalsim/mecha gief
(whenever gief needed some health regen, dhalsim would be high in the sky for days teleporting nonstop haha)
santhrax abandoned in the name of ruby/iceman/sonson
talk about somethin else
i see what you mean, but the reason why these might be considered low tier is that they arent as fast as the gods, or they might take more damage compared to the gods. The people we consider low tier have way too much flaws compared to the gods and thats why they’re low tier.
hes just putting down similarities in movement/gameplan/abilities not in terms of overly-poweredness.
i realize they are similarities, but are still completely different compared to the top/god tiers.
who would you ban if you were to host a low tier tournament?
If I were to hold a Ratio Battle tourney, these would be the rules. Note that this is off the top of my head, and I may be forgetting some characters that should be ratio 4 or 5…
You may use up to 4 ratio points to assemble your team.
Ratio 5 [banned]
Sentinel, Storm, Magneto, Ironman, War Machine, Spiral, *Cable
-Combinable with ratio 1 or 0 only
Capcom, Doom, Blackheart, Cyclops, Megaman, Dhalsim, Psylocke, Cammy, Rogue, Tron, Anakaris, Iceman, Strider, Omega Red
Everyone but Roll and Servbot in general.
-Morrigan would be Ratio 1 under protest. Should be ratio 2.
-Chun-Li sits here under protest. Should be ratio 2. You wouldn’t believe the scary stuff you can do with her.
-Sabertooth under protest. Sabertooth beta is one of the best assists in the entire game.
-Colossus would be ratio 1 under protest [Should be ratio 2]
Roll and Servbot.
-May use more than 1 ratio 2, but you cannot choose a good assist for either of them. Only 1 of them should you have 2 ratio 2s. For example, Servbot would be able to pick Doom and Blackheart, but Doom would only be allowed to use his projectile assist [no Doom beta or alpha], and BH would be stuck on projectile or launcher.
*I’d consider making Cable a ratio 4 [OUCH, stuck with both Servbot and Roll, and not allowed to use Cable’s beta or alpha assists], but inevitably reject it. People who don’t realize just how bad Cable would suck in such a situation would bitch.
There are several problems with a low tier ratio system
for starters, you gotta take out all the top tiers. doom, sim, strider, BH, cyke. Those doods gotta go. Why keep them there? they get play in usual tournaments on the regular so whats so low tier about them? imo, the purpose of a low tier tournament is to see those characters that don’t get any real play because of top tiers being present.
you’ll constantly tweak the ratio’s as time passes by if said system remains in place for a while. In your ratio 2 system, you got iceman in there but not morrigan? no ruby heart? no speed up wolvy? no chun? this is type of thing I mean.
then, there’s the fact that a ratio system turns into a math problem. Who can I combine with what? will this team work? who can’t I pick again, let me see that list one more time. Did the characters I pick match the ratio system? its just a lot of crap to deal if you just want to play. Leaving it black and white will allow the easiest way of running things as well as to promote a better low tier tournament format because it’ll be easy to understand. No one wants to look @ a ratio list in order to pick their team. I say just make a ban list and leave it @ that.
I have no clue why people are saying sim is low tier. 10x fierce combo,infinites and his run away vs 95% of the low tiers in the game is just stupid. Whats stopping sim from getting the life lead early and running away for 90 seconds while hulk\ other random low tier are stuck on the ground waiting for him to come down? sj to the top of the screen dash up, teleport, dash upfwd, teleport, dash upbck, teleport etc… he will NOT touch the ground. Take his cheap ass out.
I’m not trying to force my views on anyone but if someone has any kind of decent counter argument, i’m willing to listen but as of now, I think this banned low tier system works best.
banned: top 4, strider, doom, IM\WM, spiral, BH, cyke, sim
thats it, everyone else is playable and all assists are available if the character is not banned. If you leave some of those characters in, you’ll have a low top tier category and then a high mid\low tier category and it makes it unbalanced \ retarded because the banned characters get daily play.
Take them all out and now psy, cammy, ruby, wolvy, gambit, rogue, spidey, charlie, megaman, omega red, son son, venom, marrow and a few others are fighting to be in the top low tier category. There’s tons of diversity in that scenario. You have ground based rush down, hi\lo rush down and trap\keep away characters in the mix of all that. IMO, thats what a low tier tourney should try to represent. The actual low tier characters who are very good but aren’t tops. Leaving some tops in will only force people to actually pick those characters in a low tier tourney. We, as a communitity, have already been down the path for low tiers.
I was just going to add the same before you already said it, but armor gief lariat IS a top tier assist.
cable couldn’t ask for a better assist.
^-- OK, but why is Cable available in that instance? Frankly, I think Gief Lariat almost works better with Captain America anyways. 80% combo into Final Justice is beastly for low tiers.
I agree with pretty much everything shoultzula is saying here. Megaman is also pretty cheap situationally, but I’d want to keep him in if Cammy or Wolverine are in, since those three form a nice little countering trio amongst themselves.