LP Crimminal Upper Safe Chart

cody
#1

Since Ruffian Kick are all terrible unsafe, most block string combos end with LP Criminal Upper. However, with -5 frames it’s more or less unsafe on block. But due to the range your opponent is left after your combo, most fast outcoming moves will not reach you.

My idea now, is to make a chart that shows every character and his related move(s) that actually can punish LP Criminal Upper. Depending on the matchup you can then see weather or not to use it to end your strings.

This can’t be just taken out of the frame charts, since the spacing is an important factor and has therefore to be tested.

I’ll update the thread with any valid input. I’ll test it myself soon aswell.

Please help gathering the intel and write the character and the move down or if a character is NOT able to punish it at all. I’d also gladly take the start up frame of the move, to see the time window your opponent has.

I think we should use this combo for testing from CLOSEST distance:

c.lp, c.lp, c.lk xx LP CU

Just take the character you want to test as Player 1, Cody as Player 2 and record: “Walking Forward, c.lp, c.lp, c.lk xx LP CU, [crouching] Block for a few seconds”. Set the dummy to “playback” and test the various specials, normals, ultras and supers each character has.

Help appreciated.

e.g Gen’s s.mk has 5 frames start up and is abel to reach Cody, but it’s a 1-frame time window and requires therefore VERY strict timing.

Glossary:
s. = Standing
c. = Crouching
S = Super Cancable
NC = Non Comboable [can’t connect/cancel into anything]

-Abel-
s.lk [NC]
Super

-Adon-
c.mp [S, 1-Hit LK Rising Jaguar]

-Akuma-
c.mk [NC]
MK+HK Tatsumaki
Super
Ultra 1

-Balrog-
s.lp [c.hk, Rush/Dash Punch, Ultra I]
c.lp [Rush/Dash Punch]

-Blanka-
s.lp [Beast Roll]
c.lp [Beast Roll]
Upward Roll

-Cammy-
s.lp [Spiral Arrow, S]
Super

-Chun-Li-
s.lp [s.hp, S]
s.lk [NC]
LK Legs [1 Hit]
Ex Legs [Ultra 2]
Super

-Cody-
s.lp [Criminal Upper, Ruffian Kick, s.lk]
s.lk [NC]
c.lk [Criminal Upper, Ruffian Kick]
s.lp Knife [s.lp Knife]
c.lp Knife [NC]

?C. Viper
?Dan

-Dee Jay-
c.mk

?Dhalsim
?Dudley
?El Fuerte

-E. Honda-
s.lp

?Fei Long

**-Gen- **
[Mantis] s.mk (Super, Hands)

?Gouken

-Guile-
Flashkick

?Guy
?Hakan

-Ibuki-
s.lp

?Juri
?Ken
?Makoto
?M. Bison (Dictator)
?Rose
?Rufus
?Ryu
?Sagat
?Sakura
?Seth
?T. Hawk

?Vega (Claw)
c.mp

?Zangief

If a character has allready data, it doesn’t mean there can’t be more!

#2

Would be nice to have this chart handy, I wanted to mention that if you don’t connect with the first hit of the CU (like if you are too far away) it deals less blockstun from what I’ve seen and is very unsafe on block and can be punished much easier, (anyone else confirm this?). If I am super far away I always use ruffian mk. Back on topic though the main character to watch out for is claw, his cr.mp xx ex FBA is easy as hell to hit (2frames) after a blocked CU and does massive damage (240).

#3

//updated Abel, Adon, Akuma, Balrog and Blanka

#4

Since this is the thread dedicated to LP CU, and the weird inconsistency with it has already been mentioned I’ll throw my two cents in. I use cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.mp, xx LP CU regularly and I’ve noticed the same thing with the first hit of the CU. Because I use the cr.mp instead of the cr.lk, the push back is a little farther and sometimes the first hit on the CU completely misses, especially if they’re in the corner it seems. It’s like sometimes the first hit of the LP CU sometimes hits shallow in the tornado and sometimes it hits deep.

So even though the entire thing should combo, the end of the LP CU gets blocked out. It’s weird, and I’d love to know how to recreate it regularly because when it happens my opponent usually assumes it’s a medium or fierce CU and that I’m free to punish from that position so I’ll follow up that LP CU directly with a EX CU to catch them trying to capitalize.

Anyway, I have a completely free evening so I’ll put a few people through their paces against the test combo and report what I find, because I’d love to have a better idea of what to watch for in these cases.

edited for clarity

#5

My advice is to not use this move for blockstring enders, but if you do only do it rarely.

Deejay: c.mk
Guile: Flashkick
Honda: s.lpxxhands…
Ibuki: s.lpxxcombo (pretty sure it ends with untechable knockdown)

And I think T. Hawk and Gief might get LP SPD as well.

Too many characters get damage/knockdown or can put you in a mixup. It’s just overall not a great idea to use it. I just use HP CU now and only in combos.

Too avoid sounding like I’m bitching too much, I’ll just say that the fact that this thread needs to exist is further proof that the unsafe-ness of LP CU (And MK Ruffian, but that’s something else) is one of Cody’s biggest weaknesses.

#6

true. and the fact that you can eat an srk / spd after jab jab is also sad. but it’s good to know everything. some extra chip doesnt hurt if it’s unpunishable against some characters, or if the dont have ultra/super full etc.

added your stuff.

i think you r out of reach from any grab.

#7

I know for a fact that Claw can crMP it if he has the claw, which leads to EX Walldive.
And Guy, I believe, can walk a quick step and start a target combo.
I don’t like to use specials in block strings unless it’s an unpredictable (hopefully) rock throw.

I think Rose can crMP as well. Tho I’ll have to actually test that one out.

#8

// updated Cammy, Chun-Li and Cody

#9

What do you guys prefer to use in place of a special as a combo ender? (Ruffian kicks all feel unsafe, now I guess even LP CU is unsafe… is there anything we can do rather than just stop and fish for a counter-hit?)

#10

lol this thread is looking more like a “LP Criminal never safe on block” but your block string should end with a counter hit attempt not chip damage.

If anything it should end with a lp/ex stone cuz that gives you +4 and +8 respectively on block. When I look at Cody I see that his main advantage is his normals and frame traps.

#11

i honestly think this is a bad idea. cody has some good options to keep a block string going, as opposed to simply ending it with a LP CU. the only time i actually throw out a CU during a block string is when i know it will kill my opponent, and even then i use a HP CU.

#12

How does abel’s U2 hit a lp criminal upper, CU -5 frames, Abel’s start up of his ultra is longer than that.

#13

try to jump away and you’ll see : D

however could be wrong tho but i recorded the combo and jumped afterwards and was still abel to hit him every time.

#14

Pretty sure you just didnt take into account the ultra freeze, you have to hold up to compensate for the ultra freeze when recording.

#15

i did hold up but i just tested it again, and know he’s abel to jump out. stange

#16

I main Bison and there is not too much he can do, mainly just Ultras during the cancel.

He can ex knee press or ex psycho crusher during the cancel but it leads to a knockdown for both players. It definitely trades in Bisons favor on this but, I wouldn’t worry about it unless you’re down to 100 or less HP.

He can get a c.lk xx knee press but, Cody can block in time so you’ll take the knee press chip and be back to a reset. As a Bison player I can tell you to be careful about sticking anything out after you block the lk knee press but, I’m sure you guys know that.

Bisons short is 3 frames, I don’t know why Cody can block in time. Maybe the distance of the CU makes it safer than the frame data shows? I even tried putting the c.lk on turbo in case I wasn’t pressing it soon enough and it was still blocked every time.

His super just outright gets beat.

Both of his Ultras can be activated during the cancel but, it’s pretty damn hard to do and he has to know you’re going to cancel (not to mention you can frame trap with the c.lp, c.lk so you can catch him buffering the inputs).

Just decided today that I might start alting Cody so I thought I could contribute something.

#17

what do you mean with “cancel” all the time? :3

#18

I mean the time between when the c.LK hits you and the LP CU hits you

just like how you can focus or reversal or ultra when ryu does a c.mk xx hadouken on block

#19

c.lk xx lp cu can’t be interupptet afair?! it’s a cancel and therefore you should be in block stun. c.mk xx hadoken is the case cuz hadoken needs travel time.

you can mash something betweeen c.lp, c.lk tho.

#20

criminal upper still has start up time and c.lk is only +2 on hit which means I didn’t link the CU on accident(13 frame start up)