M.Bison vs Yun Match Up

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
#1

M.Bison vs Yun

Spoiler

General Information
Low health, good damage, good mix ups against Bison. Keep his little bugger out. He has a DP. :frowning:

Ground Game–
Far Range Psychological tug of war. Yun can sit back and build a little meter with Palm and try to get a reaction out of you to open up some mix ups. For the most part you’re kind of stuck there unless you get a good opening on him with something. Don’t predictably fullscreen Head Press in, you’ll let yourself fall into dive kick openers.

Mid Range After an LK Knee Press on block, if he has no meter, hit him with some s.HK or s.MK and keep him out. This is a good distance to gauge and preemptively counter some of his dive kicks and jump ins. It’s a bit of a guessy/patient game Bison has to play against Yun.

Close Range If you feel a dive kick coming in, hit roundhouse or go for a nj.HK, back j.HP to get them hit and space out. Pokes are okay against Yun. All of his shoulders are punishable on block. EX-Lunge Punch is safe on block, something you have to keep in mind.

On Wake up–

Counters:

Ultra Preference: Ultra 1
Against Ultra 1 You can be anti-air’ed with this on reaction if you blindly jump in. It is strongly advised against.
Against Ultra 2 This can possibly punish EX-Psycho Crusher on block out of a corner.

Mind Games and Option Select–

Specific Setups and Tricks

Spoiler

Shoryuken safejump setup works on his up kicks. Backthrow, step forward, j.HK

#2

surprised nobody wrote anything. thanks for creating the thread. we should have some discussion going on considering yun is used by so many people in the arcade.

#3

EX lunge punch is punishable by EX PC on reaction. Possibly even normal PC.

Solid footsies are your best bet against Yun. Don’t get too cute with s.HK though or you’ll eat a counterhit dive kick. I think dictator goes fairly even with Yun. His mixups are good but I feel like Bison has a stronger groundgame and has the potential to frustrate a Yun by being patient and not falling for his baits.

#4

I don’t think punishable is the right word if you’re stuffing it instead of blocking and then doing the Ex-PC. But yeah, I get what you’re saying. Yun’s DP seems slow, so I just do normal safe jumps and it seems to work (forward throw, take like a step forward, j. fp).

#5

Do his up-kicks start up in 3-4 frames?

#6

I’m pretty sure it’s at least 4. I think I heard a claim that it may be as slow as 5. I’ve heard various things, but I’m 90% positive it’s not 3.

#7

These stuff are important for me to shape my matchup strategy

–
REVERSALS
How invincible are his upkicks? and ex?
startup?
How do they fair against crossups?
Do they beat regular Psycho Crusher crossups?
Does deep wakeup Psycho Crusher beat it?
Does it beat Headpress after grab/scissors lk?
Whats its priority against low meaties

NORMALS
whats his longest normal
How fast is his fastest normal
How fast is his crouch tech move (cr.lk)?
How fast and how low is his cr.mk

PUNISH
Is Yun able to punish close EX Psycho on block?

PRESSURE
What kind of OS does Yun have against teleport, ex devil, ex psycho, ex scissors
What are Yun’s main wakeup pressure tools (meaties and jump ins)

#8

I can’t gauge Yun’s upkicks at the arcade. All the Yun’s that are not Issei are wack.

I’ve been safe jumping them with backthrows fairly easy. So I’m going to guess his Up kick is like 4~5 frames.

#9

if you’re confident that they’ll whiff a palm because they’re confident that they can do it for free, you can walk up and roundhouse that fool in the face.

depending on the distances, far st.hp works, cr.hp works. (against dive kicks)

I think most of the time they wait until you lose charge to ex lunge punch. Usually it’s that and you have a few pixels of life left and they’re going for chip.

You gotta be careful whiffing normals when you’re trying to play footsies bc they’ll give you an easy mode max dmg combo from a whiffed anything almost if they read you right.

haven’t tried jump back fierce to get away from up close dive kick pressure yet, I gotta try that out.

I hate yun. it’s like one mistake and i’m done. I hate losing to yang more bc he doesn’t feel as broken.

#10

can you cr.lp+lk+hp to option select throwtech/anti-divekick?

#11

No, cr.hp is too slow.

#12

I could really use some advice (preferably vids, I searched didn’t find much in the way of Bison winning in this matchup) on how to punish Yun. I am not able to get the pressure off me and get a reset so I can start my offense back up, especially with the lunge punch into throw. I can manage to tech that, but then it’s usually right back into the same thing, or the downward kick shenanigans that I have a hard time with anyway (crossup pressure, no meter).

I wasn’t getting killed in the matches I was having tonight, but I was consistently losing in this matchup.

#13
#14

Yeah, those matches look very close to what I’m encountering… very close matches and normally I end up losing. I did see one ray of light, is it possible to cr.lk into scissor kick after the lunge punch block? I seem to always get thrown there or dragon kicked.

#15

EX Lunge punch is +1 on block. Can’t punish that after you block.
Normal lunges you can though.

#16

they will be very close, down to the wire usually unless Yun gets in and goes to town with his mixup game, or Bison has lots of Yomi. I like to air camp a lot in this MU with jump mk, jump hk. If yun getting reckless with jump ins you can try to jump mp to juggle him, but Yun has some pretty high air priority moves in his arsenal so don’t abuse this. Spacing is always important with bison, but even more so in this match. You DONT want yun to get in and start his absurd pressure/mix up game so try to keep space so you can anti air him with stand hk or a n jump aerial. Take advantage of any momentum you get, run the clock if you have to. Do whatever. It’s yun.

Also, if he gets in, dont panic. Block. Block, block.

#17

Normal lunges seem to be punishable…except when he spaces it out to max or near max range. I think he has the same deal with lunge punch that we do with mk and hk sk

#18

I think you can also punish lp shoulder with cr. lk to scissor kick I think. I was able to catch yuns with this whenever they pressed buttons after lp shoulder. But I am not too sure I have only played one good yun and I only played them online so far

#19

Hm. A well spaced cr.mk is free on Yun’s wakeup. Bison can auto correct U1 to punished whiffed upkicks. I wonder if there’s an OS somewhere in there, or something you can do on reaction. My guess is that backdash will still get Yun out because cr.mk is too slow.

If anybody is near a console now, feel free to test.

edit: meh, doesn’t work. Bison doesn’t auto correct on the OS

#20

ono wanted yun and yang to be op,
Look at all the nerfs characters received, most of the nerfs are those that challenged yun and yang.

E.g Headbutt and S.HK damage