Makoto Strategy and Match-ups

makoto

#1

Let’s get some Makoto matchup discussions going here! :woot:

(updating for AE: matchups will either have full writeups or links to where the original writeup was found.

Note: many of the new matchup information was grabbed from the AEMakoto Guide

vs. Abel

Spoiler

[spoiler=General Strat]
Abel’s AA options not being any good is a myth. If you jump at a competent Abel player while he’s standing,
your’re going to get low fierce juggled into either air grab or ultra 1, and then you’re going to die when you have
no way out of his ambiguous roll and throw mixup game. Between stand strong, stand fierce, low forward,
and low fierce, Abel has virtually every jumping angle covered, and can potentially take half of your life if he
clips you with the end of his elbow.

Your best option is probably to vary your jump timing/trajectory with tsurugi, but only if he’s using ultra 1.
If he has ultra 2, you absolutely cannot jump at him when he has it stocked. Even if he has ultra 1, you still
run a huge risk of getting juggled into an untechable knockdown and thrown into his ambiguous grinder.

Keep yourself grounded and use your good pokes. Low fierce or stand strong careless rolls, and use your
various AA normals on his likely jumping attack of jump forward. Watch out for his jump jab, which has a
strange hitbox and seems like it can stuff almost anything seemingly at random. Don’t get predictable with
poke patterns, or he’ll EX rekka through and put the hurt on. The absolute most important thing to remember
is that you must not get knocked down; your entire gameplan should revolve around making him attempt to
break your wall of pokes.

If he does his ultra 2, you need to instantly eyeball the distance between yourself and Abel and decide if you
can jump over him. If you can, jump over attempt to punish; if not, jump back to safety and punish (preferably
with ultra) when it runs out of steam right in front of you. From what I’ve seen, there is no spacing where you
can’t escape that ultra if you immediately use the correct jump. Like I said, don’t get predictable in your poking
and you can keep yourself relatively safe.

once again s.mk works like a beast for keeping him zoned, I think this normal in general needs to be
abused more, all I can think of it reminding me of is a linkable chun/dictator RH. other than that for
normals, c.mp, s.mp, f.mp, c.lk all work pretty well, just make sure you’re not getting within tornado
throw range unless you’re somewhat sure they aren’t going to see karakusa coming,
WHEN IT DOES LAND, try to go for some fp-cancel-karakusa resets, mix up after hayate with IA tsurugis,
there’s a lot of mindfucks you can play with abel since he really doesn’t have a way around solid normal
mixups, except possibly getting through one with EX COD(which isn’t that threatening in general)
Another note about his wheel kick… I’ve had quite a bit of luck punishing it on reaction with lp, mp and ex fukiage. Be prepared to juggle. Even if you trade, you can juggle with a charged lp hayate, or a mp hayate and win the trade. The only time you actually have to KARA fukiage to juggle in this reaction is on trade, so… If you trade fukiage with wheel kick, kara fukiage then ex tsurugi, or simple juggle with hayate. The choice is yours. Either way, he’s not doing wheel kick anymore. The last thing I’ve been doing against wheel kick is dashing under it, but this is very risky, and not worth mastering in my opinion. Good Abels won’t let you do this with their spacing

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]zAVqS3gn6xM[/media]
[media=youtube]PKg7rnYR4xQ[/media]

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vs. Adon

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[spoiler=General Strat]
http://bit.ly/oMSlWz

Example Videos:

[/details]

vs. Akuma

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[spoiler=General Strat]:

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]sOy-iHDfaIY[/media]
@16:25
[media=youtube]U8YCXrRCI4o[/media]

[/details]

vs. Balrog (Boxer)

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[spoiler=General Strat]
http://bit.ly/oMSlWz

Example Videos

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[/details]

vs. Blanka

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[spoiler=General Strat]
Diveman’s writeup

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]_me1BA0F3vk[/media]
[media=youtube]TnmwQ58A9Qw[/media]

[/details]

vs. C. Viper

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General Strat:

Example Videos:
[media=youtube]qbnuEASt3Wg"[/media]

vs. Cammy

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[spoiler=General Matchup (AE Makoto Guide: Mossad Man/BoomCube) ]

http://bit.ly/q70Usl

[media=youtube]zp5TAjN9Vug[/media]
[media=youtube]r49gjgjpls4[/media]

[/details]

vs. Chun-Li

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Matchup: 4-6

[spoiler=General Strat]
http://bit.ly/r3YOZC

Example Videos

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NinjaCW vs. Dave Cardell
[media=youtube]Yx2bQVyBa-E[/media]
[media=youtube]Vq9hDsAQpm4[/media]

[/details]

vs. Cody

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General Strat:

Example Videos:

vs. Dan

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[spoiler=General Strat]

Example Videos

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[/details]

vs. Dee Jay

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General Strat:

Example Videos:
[media=youtube]vpnsp-d6O-M"[/media]


#2

vs. Dhalsim

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[spoiler=General Strat]:

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]IQAQMDaHsIo&feature=player_embedded"[/media]
[media=youtube]zCh1NwNfPMA[/media]

[/details]

vs. Dudley

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[spoiler=General Strat (AE Makoto Guide)]
http://bit.ly/q70Usl
http://bit.ly/ruANZO

Example Videos

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[/details]

vs. El Fuerte

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Matchup: 5-5 (4-6)

General Strat:

Example Videos:
[media=youtube]EoLSqASj1kc"[/media]

vs. Fei Long

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[spoiler=General Strat] http://bit.ly/oizZaT [/details]

Example Matches

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vs. Gen

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Matchup: 6-4 (5-5)

[spoiler=General Strat] http://bit.ly/oizZaT [/details]

Example Videos

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vs. Gouken

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Matchup: 5-5 (4-6)

General Strat:

Example Videos:

vs. Guile

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[spoiler=General Strat]
http://bit.ly/oMSlWz

Example Matches

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[media=youtube]mF_brmlxueY[/media]

[/details]

vs. Guy

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[spoiler=General Strat]
http://bit.ly/q70Usl

Example Videos:
@ 1:40
[media=youtube]w6VOd6L0oPI#t=1m40s"[/media]
[media=youtube]fz-MoTix7f0[/media]
[/details]

vs. Hakan

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Matchup: 6-4 (5-5)

General Strat:

Example Videos:

vs. Honda

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Matchup: 4-6

General Strat:

Example Videos:
[media=youtube]klSBzqnoPk0"[/media]


Official Problem and Solution Thread
#3

if you plan on consolidating all the talk in the thread in those two posts, please put dates by the advice. nothing worse than reading through matchup information that’s out of date or disproved two months down the line.


#4

vs. Ibuki

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[spoiler=General Strat (AE Makoto Guide)]

http://bit.ly/oizZaT

Example Videos

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@1:38 [media=youtube]mPbwLbpHO_I[/media]
[/details]

vs. Juri

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[spoiler=General Strat]

Example Videos

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@ 4:41
[media=youtube]U8YCXrRCI4o[/media]
[media=youtube]th6fhTIhqHU[/media]
[media=youtube]A0bgikXLIJc[/media]

[/details]

vs. Ken

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[spoiler=General Strat]:

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]Sj2H-bricGg[/media]
[media=youtube]mxMMFdYMoHA[/media]
[media=youtube]JwBmy2Wh1ss[/media]
[media=youtube]Sy3CR9Lb0K0[/media]

[/details]

vs. M. Bison

Spoiler

[spoiler=General Strat]
this match is all ground game. No one is allowed to jump in this match-up unless for a cross-up after
a knockdown. s.MP is the answer for just about all of Dictator’s jump ins (c.MK might be as well but I
forgot to try it), while s.HK is Dic’s answer to all of Makoto’s jump ins. From what I played, it felt like
Makoto had 5 major tools in this match up:

1: s.MP
2: c.FP
3: (EX) Karakusa
4: EX Oroshi
5: Ultra 1

s.MP is your only footsie tool here. It can either beat or trade with Dictator’s s.MK, s.HK, c.MP,
(EX) Psycho Crusher, (EX) Scissor Kick, etc. Basically, it has the potential to beat everything he has,
it’s just dependent on the spacing. My gameplan throughout my matches were to get in close by making
him scared to press a button to keep me out (fearing s.MP) and dash in to land a grab for a combo. Problem
with Karakusa is it’s range is shit, and Dictator’s walk speed is too damn good against Makoto. This is
where c.HP comes to play. After getting Dic to hold back after getting outpoked by your s.MP you can
proceed to dash in. If he continues holding back instead of crouch block, c.HP will stop him and you score
a knockdown. Bait EX Psycho if he has meter and punish it with dash Karakusa or EX Karakusa, in case
he tries to mash you after the EX Psycho. Once he starts fearing the c.HP and begins crouch blocking, that’s
when you dash Karakusa. So basically, after you dash, you have 3 options:

  • (EX) Karakusa
  • c.HP
  • s.MP

The main use for EX Oroshi is to get out off Scissor kick corner pressure when it happens. Outside of that,
I found myself constantly having meter or super in the match because I’m mostly just pressing s.MP.
I tried OSing with Hayate during the s.MP footsies game and found that if the distance in which it hits is too
wide the Hayate will whiff, which of course isn’t good. So I opted not to go for OS Hayate in the matches I
played. Even without that the match up seemed managable.

Right now, I’d rate it probably 4.5/5.5, if not 4/6, Dictator’s favor. Mainly because a lot of trades when they
happen are in Dic’s favor, Makoto has 950 health, and Dic’s walk speed shits on Karakusa and allows him to
tick throw well. It overall feels very winnable though.

[/quote]

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]GiEs4y3GXoY[/media]

[/details]

vs. Makoto

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[spoiler=General Strat]

Example Videos

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[/details]

vs. Rose

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General Strat:

Example Videos:

vs. Rufus

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[spoiler=General Strat]
http://bit.ly/r3YOZC

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]SzEtF6vxh-8[/media]

[/details]


#5

I hope you are dedicated man, because there will be a lot of information going through her for the first many months… ALOT.


#6

vs. Ryu

Spoiler

General Strat:

Example Videos:
[media=youtube]hvuKYWbec1U"[/media]
V-Ryu vs. Daigo

vs. Sagat

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[spoiler=General Strat]:

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]XGcU0fEgJdI[/media]
[media=youtube]naLJ08U6TLw[/media]
[media=youtube]i924YZhq9t0[/media]

[/details]

vs. Sakura

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[spoiler=General Strat]

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]Oui4QL_pEpI[/media]
[media=youtube]7sSaEfCguKc[/media]

[/details]

vs. Seth

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[spoiler=General Strat]

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]BmaMWZv6vdE[/media]
[media=youtube]xJG5M3Uu7VA[/media]
[media=youtube]wpPjaHRJxXM[/media]
[media=youtube]xFQrSGnIujA[/media]

[/details]

vs. T. Hawk

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General Strat:

Example Videos:

vs. Vega (Claw)

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[spoiler=General Strat]
http://bit.ly/oMSlWz

[/details]

vs. Yang

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[spoiler=General Strategy] [/details]

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]9KVYa9F_8n4[/media]

vs. Yun

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[spoiler=General Strategy] http://bit.ly/oizZaT [/details]

Example Videos

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vs. Zangief

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General Strat: [spoiler=AEMakoto Guide: Mossad Man)]
http://bit.ly/r3YOZC

Example Videos

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[media=youtube]fvSBYZANkf4[/media]
[media=youtube]yhTU2qM3njk[/media]
[media=youtube]qFSFLywRdy8[/media]

[/details]


#7

If you ever need help just PM me and I’ll help out.


#8

This

This thread is gunna be great once the ball gets rolling, i hope it doesn’t turn into a cluster fuck XD
If ya ever need a hand let me know XD


#9

if other character threads are anything to go by you can discount 99% of peoples advice. In time a very select few will experience real tournament success and accumilate actual matchup knowledge to share, everyone else will just be spouting g1 level BS.

Its not that its a waste of time; although matchup advice changes over time, day 1 matchup advice (which is obviously going to be crap in 6 months) is valid on day 1 if given by a top player. You just have to know who to trust before committing it to the first post, otherwise you’ll be posting up bogus info and sending people down the road to poor play. it happened in the blanka thread for about 6 months, theres about 3 people who know how to play blanka and post on the forum, almost everyone else used to post up rubbish that probably worked on crap players but was either wrong or only good for xbl.


#10

=) Thanks man. Oh, and I caught this in the main makoto thread. Figured I’d use it to get some sort of discussion here.

I was actually thinking about this, especially when she’s facing against chars like Rog, Abel, Gief, etc. Me personally, I’d rather block and punish shit than rush shit down for the whole entire match. However, since this is Makoto, I’m going to be Captain Obvious here and say your going to have to get your shit off first when facing rush-down characters.

This was probably mentioned in the main thread as well, but I find Gief (and Hawk) /Makoto being one of the more interesting matchups in the game. Both know that we have a command grab that leads into a lot of damage and we don’t want to get hit by either of them, but we want to set up the other player up into landing into our grab. In addition, since we already know they are afraid of landing into it, we can probably punish alot of their attempts to get away. So there’s going to be a whole lot of mindgames / grappler footies at work here. It’s going to be who can get the other player scared first and keep the momentum going.

Oh and Seth is most likely going to be the worst matchup ever, since he can both rushdown and runaway pretty easily. I’m calling 4-6 or 3-7 in his favor. LOL. Thoughts on this?


#11

Nah.

EX hayate shouldn’t make it too bad.

edit: abare could be really nice for that matchup.


#12

yeah, Abare Tosanami should probably be the Ultra of choice against characters with a fireball, except maybe Guile because it recovers so fast (also, Seth? I have no idea what’s the recovery on his SB). The fact that you can ultra punish a fireball from any range should give them doubts about throwing one and give you more options and breathing room to approach them, in my opinion.


#13

Seth won’t be bad he can’t boom into ultra for free any more so he’s seriously fucked!


#14

Didn’t sharin say that you can abare sonic booms on reaction? Maybe.


#15

^^ yeah he did, but his reaction time must be off the charts then. Shit’s supposed to come out really fast.


#16

Nah, his fireball is easy to react to seeing that it’s slow, it’s just that he recovers so fast. Which is why I’m skeptical.


#17

nobody is U2’ing a jab sonic boom on reaction. i hope sharin tests her IA tsurigi vs guiles cr.hp.


#18

Mullah this is Seth’s boom they are talking about (i think). Seth’s boom is incredibly slow.


#19

Also, you usually have a good idea when guile is going to sonic boom if he’s doing them consistently. You can buffer the ultra motion and activate on reaction. I don’t think it’s outside of the realm of possibility.


#20

true but if anything, that’ll be on some clutch shit. Not to discount your post, but while it does sound possible, anyone doing Ultras to counter any SBs on reaction wont happen too often, especially with Guile. Dunno with Seth, however. It could work.

Now with other fireball chars, U2 looks like its the Ultra of choice, unless u feel as if u can go in and maximize your close-range damage.

EDIT
Oh and something tells me the Viper matchup is going to be in her [Viper] favor. With Makoto’s lack of a wake up game, Viper’s gunna have a field day with the mixups and making Makoto guess everytime she’s knocked down. But it sounds win-able. Not to the point where Makoto has to work SUPER hard (like Vega), but where she has to go that extra mile to keep the momentum on her side.